So what is a basic certification today?

[Ana]

For the last few years I've been resenting dive charters in general. Why? ...because they attempt to treat me like I am retarded. Talking to others I hear how divers today are ill prepared yadah yadah yadah. Mostly it seemed to me an exageration, not everyone need to be an expert in order to have fun diving I thought, but I don't know anymore.

Yesterday, my husband and I went out diving with a local boat in PCB, (not our first time in that boat). A comfortable vessel with a nice easy ladder, a knowledgable captain with what appeared to be average DM. With us, there was an instructor (in his early 20's) with 3 students. Turned out this was the 2 dives these guys needed to complete their certification.

It had been a while since we were in the boat, at the end of our first dive I was told that now they have to hold my tank-valve while I go from the platform to my spot. The path is no more than a 4 or 5 steps and amusingly enough, they don't have to hold me or my tank while I go from the spot to the platform only for the return trip. I didn't like to be informed of new things while I'm going up the ladder, but since there aren't that many available boats in this backwards town, I figured it was better to kept my opinions to myself.

During the surface interval the captain was asking the students a few basic questions in a friendly way, the question I heard was: Which time is more important to keep track of: bottom time of first dive, surface interval or something else I couldn't quite hear.
At that point 2 of the students asked the instructor what was the bottom time of the dive they just completed? uh? did I hear correctly? ... sure enough none of the students had a watch,,, hey... the instructor didn't have a watch either. MY mouth activated by itself, I had to ask the instructor.. "they don't have a watch and you don't have a watch?" nope, he was proud to show me his sunto air computer. He then proceeded to tell his students, they just did a 17 minute dive. I then saw, 3 grown men listen to this punk telling them their dive. At that point I realized why I get treated like I am a brain damaged person everytime I board a dive charter.

So what does a person need to do or know these days in order to get certified? I guess knowing that answer won't make a difference to me, I should ask if anyone has a reasonably priced used boat for sale, how about a 23 or 25' Parker?

 

[PerroneFord]

So what does a person need to do or know these days in order to get certified?

Apparently not a lot from what I see at a lot of places. To be sure, there are some very good open water instructors out there. But when you can go from OW diver to instructor in under a year, what do you expect?

 

[kent_1848]

sure enough none of the students had a watch,,, hey... the instructor didn't have a watch either. MY mouth activated by itself, I had to ask the instructor.. "they don't have a watch and you don't have a watch?" nope, he was proud to show me his sunto air computer. He then proceeded to tell his students, they just did a 17 minute dive.

So, is the timer on the computer not just as good as a watch? I'll agree that everyone should have had some sort of timer, but I don't think you have to have a watch.

 

[neil]

Yikes. I expect my students to at least be able to plan and time a dive without my help.

 

[ocrmaster]

maybe they used the 1mississippi method 2mississippi 3mississippi 4mississippi to remember their time.

I am certain that they will eventually purchase a dive computer.

 

[spectrum]

So, is the timer on the computer not just as good as a watch? I'll agree that everyone should have had some sort of timer, but I don't think you have to have a watch.

A back-up time piece is a real good idea if the dive has any chance of teasing the NDL or if repetetive dives are planned.

To the OP I think Ana's point was that this was a training setting and if they didn't learn dive timing then when would they?

The next question, did the instructor have an analog depth & pressure gauges or was knowing his air supply and depth also dependent on UW electronics?

Pete

 

[spectrum]

Dive training varies vastly in content and diver accountability.

What you see on the boats is the liability issue being managed to the lowest common denominator.

Pete

 

[LSDeep]

with the padi owd course (according to the instr. manual) a timing device (in any form) is not required for the student. now we can argue that forever - i will agree with all of you saying thats ridiculous! so generally it seems this instr did nothing wrong there! i wouldnt have a student of mine in the water without (be it watch, computer or whatever timer). it seems out of this world! we try to teach the importance of tables and timekeeping for your safety, spend endless time on how to use tables / a computer but it is not needed for students!!!!!

straight from the manual:

Required Equipment
During open water scuba training
for the Open Water Diver and Scuba
Diver courses, student diver equipment
requirements are fins, mask,
snorkel, compressed air cylinder with
valve, BCD with low pressure inflator,
backpack (if not integrated into the
BCD), regulator, alternate air source,
submersible pressure gauge, where
weights are appropriate, a quick release
weight system and appropriate
exposure protection for the environment.
Each diver must have a depth
gauge. The alternate air source and depth
gauge are optional in Open Water Dive 1,
but recommended. Students may use dive
computers as a depth gauge. It’s recommended
that each diver have a timer and
compass.
When student divers will use dry
suits during Open Water Training
Dives, they must complete a confined
water dry suit orientation session prior
to any open water training.

it is recommended!!? so how do they keep track of their divetime? by believing the instructor that he will do to the minute what he said in his pre dive briefing (nice idea - but often interupted / changed by actual circumstances.)

so yes i get your point of concern. my students are not in the water without an adequate timingdevice. and no, this guy did nothing wrong, as much as we disagree!

 

[kent_1848]

A back-up time piece is a real good idea if the dive has any chance of teasing the NDL or if repetetive dives are planned.

To the OP I think Ana's point was that this was a training setting and if they didn't learn dive timing then when would they?

The next question, did the instructor have an analog depth & pressure gauges or was knowing his air supply and depth also dependent on UW electronics?

Pete

I'm pretty much reliant on UW electronics. I don't have redundancy for them. I don't think I'm in the minority here, but I could be wrong.

 

[MikeFerrara]

As a student, DM and as a new instructor assisting, I always saw the class taught that way. The DM or instructor gave the dive stats to the students after the dive so they could do their table calcs and fill in their log book. It wasn't until I started to see all the other holes in the program that it dawned on me just how goofy it is. In order to come to termsd with all the flaws in the process you have to let go of the assumption that the agency who is designing the classes that you're teaching knows anything about diving. As long as you believe that there is some real diving expertise behind the course design, your eyes will be forcibly closed.

It's a simple matter to demonstrate (logically or in the water) that the average entry level course does not prepare a diver to dive independantly even under the best conditions.