...so what are the rules???

[KayBee]

Hey guys...great site. I have few questions concerning the rules of certification. Let me first give a little background.
My friend and I finished everything needed for our padi open water certification but the 4 open water dives. We had intended to finish them but it got a too cold too early here on Long Island this year. Not really a problem, we could wait until around May to finish up. However, we're going to tortola at the end of the month and we really wanted to dive. So we got our referrals ready and attempted to book our final dives in tortola. The problem we encounted was the price...$300 plus tax and tip. If we wait and finish here on Long Island in May, it will be free (included in the total course fee). So, we're thinking about passing on the diving for this trip which would be sad. Now for the questions:
Another friend of mine has his full open water cerification and he seems to think that his certification allows him to take us diving...he says we can rent gear and go dive wherever we want. Is this true?? It doesn't sound right to me. Another friend seems to think that since we finished the first part of our course, we can go diving as long as we stay with the dive master. We also thought about the resort course option...would we be able to skip the course and go right for the dives??...and are these dives usually pretty lame? Wow, I wrote a lot but I'm just trying to get some answers. So if anyone knows the rules, please share...I find this to be an area that is lacking clear explanation in the learning material. Please also feel free to offer any advice...should we just suck it up and pay the 300. The one thought that keeps us from doing this is that the dives will be more of a test and not really very fun. We really don't know what to expect though. Thanks in advance for all the help.

 

[pilot fish]

Hey guys...great site. I have few questions concerning the rules of certification. Let me first give a little background.
My friend and I finished everything needed for our padi open water certification but the 4 open water dives. We had intended to finish them but it got a too cold too early here on Long Island this year. Not really a problem, we could wait until around May to finish up. However, we're going to tortola at the end of the month and we really wanted to dive. So we got our referrals ready and attempted to book our final dives in tortola. The problem we encounted was the price...$300 plus tax and tip. If we wait and finish here on Long Island in May, it will be free (included in the total course fee). So, we're thinking about passing on the diving for this trip which would be sad. Now for the questions:
Another friend of mine has his full open water cerification and he seems to think that his certification allows him to take us diving...he says we can rent gear and go dive wherever we want. Is this true?? It doesn't sound right to me. Another friend seems to think that since we finished the first part of our course, we can go diving as long as we stay with the dive master. We also thought about the resort course option...would we be able to skip the course and go right for the dives??...and are these dives usually pretty lame? Wow, I wrote a lot but I'm just trying to get some answers. So if anyone knows the rules, please share...I find this to be an area that is lacking clear explanation in the learning material. Please also feel free to offer any advice...should we just suck it up and pay the 300. The one thought that keeps us from doing this is that the dives will be more of a test and not really very fun. We really don't know what to expect though. Thanks in advance for all the help.

I actually don't know the answer to this according to official PADI rules, but my guess is they will not rent you the gear without certification, if it is a PADI dive operation.

 

[alcina]

Another friend of mine has his full open water cerification and he seems to think that his certification allows him to take us diving...he says we can rent gear and go dive wherever we want. Is this true?? .

NO, it isn't true. You will need to go with an instructor, not simply a certified diver. I'd also be surprised if you can rent gear without showing a certification card.

we can go diving as long as we stay with the dive master. We also thought about the resort course option...would we be able to skip the course and go right for the dives??...and are these dives usually pretty lame? .

This may be true depending on what you have finished. But you still need to do the first dive with an instructor, not a dive master. This is going to be similar to a resort course experience where you have done the theory & confined sessions already.

You'll probably have to do a review of theory and some basic skills before the dive as these people have never dived with you before and need to make sure you are 100% before heading out.

As for being lame, it depends on the operator, I'd say. Our resort course dives are planned as normal dives with long bottom times and on sites that the certified divers go. I know a lot of places do the 20 minute thing - which can still be good.

I don't think $300 is unreasonable for certification - that's about what it is here, too. The new instructors are doing a lot more than just going out for a joy dive with you and the ocean dives are usually one of the more expensive parts of the course to run. Sounds like they will also be picking up the certification costs. Splitting a course up almost always costs more than doing it in a single location, but it would seem a shame to miss diving in a great location for want of a few buckeroos!

 

[Scubakevdm]

Hey guys...great site. I have few questions concerning the rules of certification. Let me first give a little background.
My friend and I finished everything needed for our padi open water certification but the 4 open water dives. We had intended to finish them but it got a too cold too early here on Long Island this year. Not really a problem, we could wait until around May to finish up. However, we're going to tortola at the end of the month and we really wanted to dive. So we got our referrals ready and attempted to book our final dives in tortola. The problem we encounted was the price...$300 plus tax and tip. If we wait and finish here on Long Island in May, it will be free (included in the total course fee). So, we're thinking about passing on the diving for this trip which would be sad. Now for the questions:
Another friend of mine has his full open water cerification and he seems to think that his certification allows him to take us diving...he says we can rent gear and go dive wherever we want. Is this true?? It doesn't sound right to me. Another friend seems to think that since we finished the first part of our course, we can go diving as long as we stay with the dive master. We also thought about the resort course option...would we be able to skip the course and go right for the dives??...and are these dives usually pretty lame? Wow, I wrote a lot but I'm just trying to get some answers. So if anyone knows the rules, please share...I find this to be an area that is lacking clear explanation in the learning material. Please also feel free to offer any advice...should we just suck it up and pay the 300. The one thought that keeps us from doing this is that the dives will be more of a test and not really very fun. We really don't know what to expect though. Thanks in advance for all the help.

The answer is no... the guy can't take you diving. That would be very dangerous. The $300.00 thing is kind of a bummer, but I know that our $300.00 thing includes equipment rental, air, boat fees for the four dives. So $190.00 of that is expenses you would have if you were to go diving anyway. I can't speak for whoever you are considering booking your refferal through, but generally there's is lots of room for fun during the checkout dives.

 

[jagfish]

First, welcome to the board....

Now for the questions:
Another friend of mine has his full open water cerification and he seems to think that his certification allows him to take us diving...he says we can rent gear and go dive wherever we want. Is this true?? It doesn't sound right to me. Another friend seems to think that since we finished the first part of our course, we can go diving as long as we stay with the dive master.

Next, Holy recipe for disaster Batman...
It seems that some of your friends are leading you down a potentially slippery slope...

Let's say that in the confines of yoursituation as you presented it, the worst case is that there really are no rules about what you do in the ocean by yourself. I know plenty of people that have tempted fate by diving with no professioal training at all. They bought their own equipment, have friends fill thier tanks, and have access to a boat or just beach dive. I am in no way condoning this.

Now, one of the functions of training as I see it in this context is that in reference to commercial operations that supply air, dive trips or certain equiment, the possession of a recognized certification of the appropriate level by the customer, limits the operation to a manageable degree of risk exposure since in teh eyes of the law they were not irresponsible in providing a good or service for which the customer was not properly qualified by a recognized agency.

Could your friend take you out, yup. Would that be potentially dangerous for your safety, and leave him with significant exposure to liability should you get injured and decide to sue him: absolutely.

A slipperly slope, but you are an adult and only you can make the decisions that guide your life...

Bite the bullet, pay the cash, or wait, or work someting out with an operation in a warm climate to do the OW dives and finish your certification. It can be done, talk to some folks...

JAG

 

[simbrooks]

The answer is no... the guy can't take you diving. That would be very dangerous. The $300.00 thing is kind of a bummer, but I know that our $300.00 thing includes equipment rental, air, boat fees for the four dives. So $190.00 of that is expenses you would have if you were to go diving anyway. I can't speak for whoever you are considering booking your refferal through, but generally there's is lots of room for fun during the checkout dives.

And you can always dive afterwards with your temp cards. Its up to you, where do you intend to dive? Up in NJ or on vacation. IF in NJ i would suggest either completing your OW up there or doing the AOW there to get used to the area under supervision. What the others said is what i would have said too - honest

 

[Deep Lake]

Is your dive shop still doing certification dives with people who are willing to brave the cold? If so why not take the drysuit course and have your instuctor combine the two classes for your dives. The course is normally about 150.00 per person. So for the same money you would get an additional certification and more experience before you go on your trip. This is what my wife did because she could not bear the idea of a wet suit in 35 degree water but wanted to be certified before our trip south this year.

Best of luck.

 

[Christi]

Alcina and others have answered perfectly. The only thing I would like to add/clarify is that if you decide not to finish your certification in Tortola and you opt for the resort dives with an instructor/divemaster...you will more than likely be paying more for the dives than you would as a certified diver. This is due to the fact that you have to dive with a private instructor/dm and have limitations. So, you will end up spending close to the same money with no certification to show for it.

For example, I charge non-certified divers $110 for a two-tank boat dive for non-certified divers once they have completed the Discover Scuba Diving course with an instructor (during the same vacation period). This price includes a private divemaster/instructor, all equipment, and all ammenities of a two-tank boat dive. I imagine that it would be even more expensive than that in Tortola.

Actually, $300 is a fair price for a referral course since as Alcina described the bulk of the course expenses are during this portion of the course.

I will also reitterate that your OW diver friend is in no way qualified to take you diving...period. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[zboss]

The answer is no... the guy can't take you diving. That would be very dangerous. The $300.00 thing is kind of a bummer, but I know that our $300.00 thing includes equipment rental, air, boat fees for the four dives. So $190.00 of that is expenses you would have if you were to go diving anyway. I can't speak for whoever you are considering booking your refferal through, but generally there's is lots of room for fun during the checkout dives.

there is no law saying you have to be certified to dive... just that no one will rent him equipment without being so. I agree it would be foolhardy to do so, however.

Another issue, which seems to have been forgotten here, is that they are much more likely to enjoy their dives and be less nervous if they were (a) certified (b) got a local orientation to the dive site by a Dive Master.

$300 is par for the course for referrals down there. You might want to shop around though - you might get it down by $25 or $45 dollars.

 

[Scubakevdm]

there is no law saying you have to be certified to dive... just that no one will rent him equipment without being so. I agree it would be foolhardy to do so, however.

Another issue, which seems to have been forgotten here, is that they are much more likely to enjoy their dives and be less nervous if they were (a) certified (b) got a local orientation to the dive site by a Dive Master.

$300 is par for the course for referrals down there. You might want to shop around though - you might get it down by $25 or $45 dollars.

Just as side bar: It is a very good idea to shop around for the best instruction you can get, maybe not so good to shop around for the cheapest.