So, just who is George Irvine III?????

[Tortuga68]

Because, i believe strongly, that because of the dominant advertising and media and Dive Industry dynamics of the mid to late 90's, if George had been soft spoken on the Internet, or not even on it...there would have been absolutely no DIR movement, and today there would only be about 100 or so WKPP people that would even know what DIR meant.....

The whole buoyancy and trim issue "may not" have ever come to recreational divers ( there are still many places it has not), the who bp/wing thing now becoming mainstream in recreational diving, would never have grown legs and would be looked at only as a curiosity by recreational divers....we would be in a different world. Without the techniques George used, even as obnoxious as some of them seem today, there would never have been the huge threads on rec.scuba or the Internet in general, and the main stream DEMA pack would have killed the DIR ideas dead.....they were bad for their marketing plans.

Dan, you've entirely missed my point - which is why do you feel the need to reinvent him? He did what he did, right or wrong, that is history and well documented. You yourself have said that you would have preferred him to respond differently at times. Why are you constantly chanting your WWF/media mantra? AFAIK the guy himself hasn't posted in public for a long time but has never recanted, explained nor apologised for anything (personal) that he said - including the death threats, carpark fight invitations and homophobic insults. So why don't you just let it stand as what it was? This is what sticks in my craw, that you want to paint it all as some deliberate showmanship for the sake of the better good. That's just crap. The guy was just an internet bully and now you want to whitewash it all in the name of 'progress'. For shame!

 

[Superlyte27]

bullsh*t

It might be regional, but it surely exists here in Florida.

 

[PfcAJ]

Confirmation bias?

 

[Superlyte27]

"Trey hurt my feelings!!! Wah!!!"

Anyone who knows me would tell you I don't have any feelings to hurt.
And really, I couldn't care less about their focus, direction, or philosophy. When they act like tools (and they never have to me personally) it just makes more business for their competitors who happen to be my friends.

But, if you're wondering why I chime in on things that really don't affect me, it's because I'm bored. This kind of stuff passes the time when I got nothing better to do. I'm sitting here in front of the tv with a massive headache, and this takes virtually no energy at all. It's just entertainment. Don't read too much into it.

 

[danvolker]

Dan, you've entirely missed my point - which is why do you feel the need to reinvent him? He did what he did, right or wrong, that is history and well documented. You yourself have said that you would have preferred him to respond differently at times. Why are you constantly chanting your WWF/media mantra? AFAIK the guy himself hasn't posted in public for a long time but has never recanted, explained nor apologised for anything (personal) that he said - including the death threats, carpark fight invitations and homophobic insults. So why don't you just let it stand as what it was? This is what sticks in my craw, that you want to paint it all as some deliberate showmanship for the sake of the better good. That's just crap. The guy was just an internet bully and now you want to whitewash it all in the name of 'progress'. For shame!

Tortuga...the thing is, I am not re-inventing him.... I want history to be told the way it really was....too many people, seem to be saying the GUE and the world would be better without GIII.....I don't like revisionism.....Too many are ready to forget that without GIII there would be no DIR, and No GUE, and no bp/wings ( which became market driven as a result of DIR)
And it is NOT well documented, as many are "sort of succeeding" with their revisionism....and...if you look at Wikipedia, it is as if George's arch enemy Bill Renaker was allowed to write the History of the WKPP and of George, so poorly was this documented, and so obvious as to the agendas in play.

 

[Superlyte27]

Confirmation bias?

LOL... that's funny.

---------- Post added August 9th, 2013 at 03:25 PM ----------

Tif you look at Wikipedia, it is as if George's arch enemy Bill Renaker was allowed to write the History of the WKPP and of George, so poorly was this documented, and so obvious as to the agendas in play.

Okay, you opened this can....

Are you telling me that George didn't literally threaten to kill Bill? ... vol. 1

 

[gitterdun]

It might be regional, but it surely exists here in Florida.

Clearly, I cannot be objective, since I have been in the GUE camp for a number of years, but everyone has been good to us, at EE. They were even good to our friends that we brought in (who were not of the GUE persuasion).

I just don't think it's fair to judge everyone from GUE, because of a handful of folks who can make it difficult for others. I also think that being an a$$hole is not GUE-specific. There are quite a few that I have met, from other agencies. "Ours" (for lack of a better term) just seem to stick out a bit more, I guess.

Anyone that knows me, knows that I get along with just about everyone... no matter what their diving philosophy. Pretty much everyone I dive with is like that.

Something that I took from Bob Overstreet, a few years ago: "Friendships are more important than dive philosophies."


Now, really... Who gives a crap about the past? Let's go diving...

 

[danvolker]

LOL... that's funny.

---------- Post added August 9th, 2013 at 03:25 PM ----------



Okay, you opened this can....

Are you telling me that George didn't literally threaten to kill Bill? ... vol. 1

No I am not saying that... I don't think anyone is going to argue with you that George mis-behaved with Bill Renaker.... I am not trying to revise that history.....However, that did not change the importance of what George was accomplishing, any more than what the good accomplishments of Bill Clinton suffered after the Monica Lewinski incident and the yellow journalism that followed.....meaning....Everyone will remember Clinton for saying "Read my Lips" and fibbing about the Lewinski episode, and it destroyed any memory the public might have had, of anything he might have done that was great for the US....maybe not an ideal example, as I am far to the right of being a democrat and I really don't remember liking much about what he did...but there must have been "something"...

So now, everyone wants to remember the Renaker incident, and how George hurt somebody's feelings...etc....and they can't wait to forget that George is the one that made DIR happen, and all the things it brought with it..... I don't have to like Clinton to know he did much more for the US than play around with Monica.

 

[Superlyte27]

I guess the reason I can't see your side of it is, that I don't believe Bill was being unsafe. George's perspective was that Bill's teaching were going to get people killed. Well, we're 20 years into the future. Bill never did sign on to George's way of thinking, but Bill Rennaker's survival record from his students is still pretty amazing.

---------- Post added August 9th, 2013 at 03:42 PM ----------

So now, everyone wants to remember the Renaker incident, and how George hurt somebody's feelings...etc....and they can't wait to forget that George is the one that made DIR happen,

I think for me it is that I can't respect a lack of self control or common sense. The guy used a state of florida issued computer to commit a felony. Granted no charges were ever filed to the best of my knowledge. Dude, if you're going to do that kind of stuff, have some brains. Don't put it in writing. Don't do it from a corporate or government computer, and don't get caught.

So, I supposed to listen to someone with this level of intelligence about cave diving? Nah!

 

[PfcAJ]

I wonder how many got scared and quit?