SO, I just finished reading "Fatal Depth"..

[Daylonious]

..by Joe Haberstroh.

Have to admit, pretty sobering stuff. Interesting the discussion raised between the boat charter captain being "only a bus driver" and the counter-point that whoever is driving the boat has a responsibility to independently verify (as best he can) the fitness of a diver for a particular site. (Especially if it's the Doria)

The trend in the book is certainly "speed kills" as in rushing through training (patch divers) or training in trimix in warm south florida thinking that's enough to keep you safe on something like the Doria (or the other northeast wrecks mentioned).

This book, like Last Dive and Shadow Divers, really drives home the point in my mind that you need to 1) have the training in the evironment you're going to dive in and 2) nothing counts more than experience... well that and 3) get the best / most appropriate equipment out there for the type of dive you are doing. Cutting corners or getting greedy is an express lane to an early demise.

I don't know if I could continue to take people out to a site after 3-4-5-6 deaths on my boat - even if most of them were believed to be medical complications. Makes me wonder how many people Silverstein, or Chatterton, or Bielenda have seen die right in front of them.

Anyhoo - food for thought about taking my time, and progressing "correctly" in my training to the point where I can safely do dives like the Doria.

Any recommendations for my next book?

D.

 

[TheRedHead]

OMG! Both Bielenda and Capt. Janet were walruses and did plenty of dives on the Doria. If someone is hiding a medical condition, how can the captain be responsible?

You might like some of the opinionated Gary Gentile's books. He has a unique take on the usual cast of Dora characters.

 

[JS1scuba]

next book --- DEEP DESCENT -- Kevin McMurray --

The Andrea Doria is not a safe place to be. It's not for the vacation diver. I've been lucky not to have seen them die in front of me. The few times I have had the "dead fish" on the deck we were swift enough to get them to good help and saved them. But I have had more than my fair share of friends die over the years. It sucks.

I head to the Doria in 10 days. I just got back from the Monitor and I can tell you that without a shadow of a doubt the guys and girls who do these big dives have their stuff together and do it with the grace expected. We look funny, we carry a lot of gear, ever carry 4 knives with razor edges on them? Those of us who have been at this a while understand the risks and the rewards. Though sometimes the rewards are miniscule to the overal risk.

Everyone has a medical issue of some sort whether known or unknown. When you immerse yourself in an alien environment you place yourself at a risk level that we were not designed to encounter. We do it with artificial means. It's not a right, it's a priviledge. And, with it comes the clear understanding (at least to some) that accidents happen, and people get hurt an sometimes die.

For my doria trip this year I had over 200 people apply to get on it. I turned down 192 of them. It may have even just been that i did not like one sentence of a 20 min conversation i had with them, or they did not have the right motivation, or the right attitude.

In the end it's only diving. But man it is the best diving!

Be careful.

Cheers

 

[Jcsgt]

It all boils down to the fact that we area responsible for our own safety. We charter boats to take us out to the sites. We don't generally hire them to babysit us.

 

[RICoder]

Dunno about your next book, I went from those to more specialized stuff on Sharks, since that's where I started to focus.

That leads to my 2cf about the legalities of things...
I'm the sort of person that believes in personal responsibility (I have a little card I got from Ft. Benning that says "A good leader seeks responsibility and takes responsibility for their actions", words to live by). When I charter a boat, and really in any diving situation, I take full responsibility for what I am about to do. THAT is why I have no problem signing those pesky "if you croak its not our fault" documents. If a Great White or Tiger shark decides to make me into lunch, its not like I didn't go out looking for it in the first place. (I'm knocking on wood and rubbing my lucky rabbit's foot right now)

The crew in Fatal Depth had a really bad string of bad luck, but I am hard pressed to blame them for what happened. I wouldn't dive the Doria because I don't feel like it is within my personal limits...I expect everyone else to be the same way.

 

[JS1scuba]

OMG! Both Bielenda and Capt. Janet were walruses and did plenty of dives on the Doria.

Bielenda is a stocky guy at 5'8" and at more than 64 years old now he can kick the crap out of most 20 year olds ---

Capt' Janet is the kindest, sweetest meanest SOB you will ever find. But when the fan is flinging the crap she is one cool cucumber. I've been in seas with her where she held that wheel for 16 hours a clip and never waned.

I crewed that boat for close to 14 years and I can tell you that you would be hard pressed to find better Captains for the kinds of dives we did on that boat. Oh and they can dive ALL the sites we ever went to. They were at the forefront and today people benefit from their work.

Dive On

 

[TheRedHead]

The point I was trying to make is that you can't judge divers by their exteriors. Most people here would look at their size and age and think them unfit to dive. I have never dived in those extreme conditions, but I would bet that being cool as a cucumber is the biggest asset one could have.

 

[JS1scuba]

The point I was trying to make is that you can't judge divers by their exteriors. Most people here would look at their size and age and think them unfit to dive. I have never dived in those extreme conditions, but I would bet that being cool as a cucumber is the biggest asset one could have.

When you are 100 miles from the nearest port and things don't go as planned, and you have 20 people on board that are your responsiblity "cool" is important -- competent and cool is even more important.

There is a reason the Doria is considered the Mt. Everest of Dives.

 

[H2Andy]

Any recommendations for my next book?

have you read Deep Descent yet? it's also about the Doria. tells the story well, a nice
perspective

same author (Kevin McMurray) also wrote Dark Descent, about diving the Empress
of Ireland. it's an interesting read at times, but i don't think nearly as well done
as Deep Descent. still, it has some stuff worth reading.

 

[dive_lover88]

man i gotta get some time to read these books...