Snorkeling advice from the net!

[Bob DBF]

« Particularly someone with a ton more experience than you - 0-25 dives, so probably not a huge amount of snorkeling experience either. »

You forgot to read…#7
I began in snorkeling in 1965, but before, I red a good book…to know…
I’ve got my first * in free diving May 2003. With the Belgian league Lifras apnea commission

Just put "I'm a fish", which is closer to what you do anyway, for the number of dives, which will encourage folks to read what you do in your profile.

Sorry to have bothered the scuba divers

Not bothering me.


Cheers
Bob

 

[dcvf2]

Thanks Bob DBF
I searched in my profile!

There it’s clear …the choice between the possibilities is just for "scuba diver".
A free diver can't answer, he is obliged to make a bad choice.

I followed your suggestion… "I'm a fish"
The fish will laugh ... well, if they come to read that

In 2003, I started my "free diver log book », but I began to snorkel in 1965!
I counted 343 sessions in free diving multiply by 20 (average dives per session)—> 6860
- in fresh water : flooded stone quarries, diving pits
- in Atlantic (Canary, Madeira, Portugal, France), Mediterranean (Costa Brava, Baleares, Italy, Sardinia, Turkey), Red Sea (Area of Sharm el Sheikh and marsa Alam), Maldives, Indonesia (Sulawesi and Raja Ampat)

 

[John C. Ratliff]

« Shallow water blackout due to low PP02 just isn't something a snorkeler, as opposed to a freediver, has to worry about. »
OK only for the "snorkeler I defined as 4 above"

This actually is not true at all. There are two types of shallow water blackout (SWB). The type you refer to has to do with deep water, and the lessoning partial pressure of oxygen causing a blackout. But this can happen in very shallow water too, as happened to me during a swim team practice when underwater swimming for endurance. My friend, Tommy Lengyl, had just swam four lengths of a 20 yard pool underwater. I was determined to beat him, so I hyperventilated for about a minute, then dove in and swam underwater breast stroke. The first two lengths were fine. I was still fine on my third length, then started "feeling it" on my fourth. I told myself that I was going to make my underwater turn, take one stroke underwater, surface and swim to the side of the pool, and that's exactly what I did. The only problem is that I don't remember anything after the turn. Had I not pre-programmed my brain to take one stroke and surface and breath, I probably would have swam underwater until I was dead. That does happen, and even in the 1960 (when I did this) was written up in physiology publications. So don't think SWB cannot happen unless the diver goes deep--it can.

SeaRat

 

[dcvf2]

@ John C. Ratliff
I effectively wrote : ‘’OK only for the "snorkeler’’ I defined as 4 above »…To calm the spirits ( french expression).
And I know very well that a BO isn't due to the deep.

I remember that my goal was to point out the mistakes I found on the net, concerning the snorkeling.
I tried to transmit the security rule we use in ‘’free diving’’ to people how never followed a ‘’free diving’’ course.

Now, as far as SWB is concerned ... A syncope (anoxic) is caused ( as you know) by a to low PPO2 (*) ... not at all at depth.
A BO can occur in any of the existing "free diving" disciplines: STA, DYN, CW, FIM and NL.

(*)If I refer (only) at the ‘’SSI Freediving’’ course I followed too…it's written
PPO2 0,21%…normal PPO2 air
PPO2 0,16%…Hypoxia Treshold
PPO2 0,10%…Unconsciousness

I also have an anecdote.
During an indoor competition (a pool 2.5m deep), I was the judge's assistant. I had to film the competitor when his head comes out of the water.

After a DYN> 150m (164) (**), the competitor leaving the head of the water, made the OK sign and ... BO.

(**) (DYN world record 316,53 m or 346,16 yard)


I never BO...I'm 77 and went at 21m (1 week ago) at NEMO33 In Belgium.

dcvf2

 

[John C. Ratliff]

The 3 first here below aren’t concerned by "the apneist's rule »
1) surface snorkeler that never dive...of course ;-)
2) snorkeler that dive to 10 feet to make a picture.
3) snorkeler that dive to 30 feet to make a kind of "touch and go".
4) snorkelers that dives below 30 feet or more and stays at least 1 minute or more at this depth ... (who do "these mistakes" because they have not taken appropriate courses) !
I’m just thinking at this last category…that the comportment is nearly those of a free diver

This is what you specified for snorkeling above. (#4 of this series is definately a risk for Shallow Water Blackout (SWB), as is #3. #2, a "snorkeler that dive to 10 feet to make a picture" could also be at risk if (s)he is, say, chasing a sea turtle for a photo for long distances underwater at 10 feet.

I haven't taken the time to watch your videos, but will soon. Let me congratulate you on your diving and snorkeling at age 77. I'm 73, and still very active in both sports. My deepest breath-hold dive this summer was 23 feet (7 meters), but that was as deep as the Clackamas River was at High Rocks, where they have lifeguards watching. Actually, I may have reached 10 meters on the reef at Maui last June too.

SeaRat

PS, I did find this CMAS document page on Apnea, which is very interesting. But realize that almost none of the readers here on ScubaBoard will be familiar with this. So you need to be careful with how you say things here.

Documents of the Apnoea Commission

 

[dcvf2]

Hi John

Your #25


You wrote
‘’This is what you specified for snorkeling above. (#4 of this series is definately a risk for Shallow Water Blackout (SWB), as is #3. #2, a "snorkeler that dive to 10 feet to make a picture" could also be at risk if (s)he is, say, chasing a sea turtle for a photo for long distances underwater at 10 feet.’’

Yes, of course, but the majority of the scuba divers were against the "Free Diver Rules" that I tried to introduce by giving what we've learned in our free diving classes.
They were against because :
- They said, I’ve always do like that.
- Snorkel in mouth, It does not bother me.
- They do not care about the "apneist’s rules", they are not concerned by them.
- They do not want to adapt. …

But they have adapted well in scuba, for example, to decrease their ascent speed (without stop) to take only that example.
18m/min… US-Navy … 1958 …1997.
10 m/min…US-Navy … 1993
But I will not dwell on these speeds because we find many different things on the net.
This is to say the scuba adapt when it interests them ... The snorkeling is joke for the scuba.

To calm the situation, I defined 4 kinds of ‘’snorkelers’’, based on the différents depth given by the scuba divers’s answers (went they become snorkelers).

Once again, BO and LMC only depend on PPO2 (*) at the end of the apnea and not of the depth we went.
(*) function of O2 consumption, (time spent underwater and physical effort)

You wrote
‘’I haven't taken the time to watch your videos, but will soon.’’
Let me know what you are thinking about.

By the way here below what I filmed in a flooded quarry
https://vimeo.com/142274793

You wrote
‘’Let me congratulate you on your diving and snorkeling at age 77.’’
Thanks

You wrote
‘’I’m 73, and still very active in both sports. My deepest breath-hold dive this summer was 23 feet (7 meters), but that was as deep as the Clackamas River was at High Rocks, where they have lifeguards watching. Actually, I may have reached 10 meters on the reef at Maui last June too. ‘’
I’m also active in cyclo club. 50 to 80 km ( 31 to 50 mile ) during dry Sundays… and when I was young last year ( at 76) mont Ventoux, my message #16



You wrote
‘’PS, I did find this CMAS document page on Apnea, which is very interesting. But realize that almost none of the readers here on ScubaBoard will be familiar with this. So you need to be careful with how you say things here.’’

Every one needs to be careful!

As I launched this message in the ‘’Snorkeling / Freediving’’ part of the forum ..., I only talk about what I know…

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I'm another that has always kept my snorkel in my mouth. And I have tried to convert but after 50 years of doing it one way, well, I think I will stay with it.

And, I do know not to exhale on the way up due to SWBO. But I also dont push the limits, I am never looking to set a depth or time record and I have no interest in going "deep" just to go deep. I am very comfortable in free-diving in 40' and shallower, been deeper but, if I cant hang out, see stuff or "work" at depth, then way do it. Going down a line to "punch a ticket" holds no interest for me..
My current beach diving vehicle!
View attachment 536072

Am I the only one to notice the Farallon snorkel? (I've got one too.)

SeaRat

 

[dcvf2]

Hi
Sorry for my message #24
Where I wrote
PPO2 0,21%…normal PPO2 air
PPO2 0,16%…Hypoxia Treshold
PPO2 0,10%…Unconsciousness

It's of corse
PPO2 21%…normal PPO2 air
PPO2 16%…Hypoxia Treshold
PPO2 10%…Unconsciousness

Thanks.