Sidemount Gear Set Advice

[tbone1004]

@Arioc the xDeep cannot mount a single tank on the back and while it is a nice sidemount rig it just can't do it. The Dive Rite is not worth $200 over the SMS75.
If you just want to go to normal hoses, the DGX link I gave has the hose adapters for $11 each. You may or may not want an angle adapter on them, I personally prefer them and have omniswivels on all of my regulators.
Edd is Edd Sorenson, owner of Cave Adventurers and one of the bigger names in sidemount diving

Do you have an option to use rental bc's if you have to dive backmount while you're down there? If so, then I would just use whatever you can get for free to use down there and get a dedicated sidemount rig. My personal favorite is the Hollis Katana, but there are a bunch that work quite well for al80 diving

@Patoux01 and @Remy B. likely due to travelling weight restrictions and/or teaching requirements. Unfortunately when travelling and teaching, you don't always have the ability to take two rigs. That said, there are at least three rigs on the market that do sidemount pretty well, and do single tank backmount mostly well. Armadillo, SMS75, Dive Rite XT. They are all designed for steel tank sidemount, but I have seen all three dive with AL80's and do it well. They are not the lightest rigs on the market though which is a bit counterproductive, but they do handle single tanks just fine, and they are all very capable sidemount rigs

@bamafan with the exception of the Kirby Morgans which are somewhat difficult to find, the ones most people see/use are the cheaper ones that the gear manufacturers sell and I have seen those explode, and I believe you have as well. I have no issues with the ball swivels as I find them much more comfortable and useful when diving because they can go back to straight when stored which is especially nice on stage/deco bottles. The important part there is to maintain them properly and most people fail to do that which is when they start separating

 

[Coztick]

Still don't know what the big foose is to use the Sidemount with a single tank, it is safer, easier, more flexible rig, than a single backmount.

Why would you prefer to put the tank on your back over slinged on one side ?

I agree, but Arioc said he needs bm to teach.
May I suggested the UTD Delta wing.
This is a modified doughnut shape wing that allows for a BM tank. The bouyancy is somewhat adjustable and the harness is minimalist with no chest strap.
Some people here will tell you that it's a compromise and won't work well for either. I call BS.
This same wing design is available for sm only through at least 3 companies.
I have less than 80 dives but I have no issues with this rig, wet or dry, single or doubles.
Can those who haven't tried one have a valid opinion based on appearance?
Good luck with your choices.

Cheers, Kevin

 

[tbone1004]

@wetwelder one could also argue that with less than 80 dives and likely limited experience with other rigs, do you have the experience to know what works well?

I actually have a pretty small list of issues with that rig, but lots and lots of problems with the people selling it which is why I won't recommend it. The Armadillo is much cheaper, and is what UTD used as a model for their rig. Only issue with the Armadillo again is the people selling it... The Dive Rite XT is a similar concept to both, works just as well as both, but is just a bit on the big/bulky side for most people since it has a lot of lift. Once you remove the buttplate and the unnecessary padding though, the XT gets surprisingly streamlined. Not the rig I would ever choose if I was only doing al80 sidemount diving, but it's the rig I would choose every time if I had to be able to backmount tanks on a sidemount rig.

FWIW that is an original Nomad *same thing as the XT with an older version of the Transpac* in my profile picture with double 104's in a cave... Extenuating circumstances since I needed to drain said tanks which is why I wasn't using my backplate, but it handles them just fine. Same rig below with a single HP120. works very well for backmount singles and the retainers for sidemount keep the wing from having the cursed taco effect.

Removal of the unnecessary padding, optional removal of the buttplate *unless you want it for storage of stuff*, and strategic locations of d-rings on the hips, it works just as just fine for diving with AL80's. Is it ideal? no, but you are asking for jack of all trades, and I think this is the best Jack

 

[bamafan]

Just a question for the op. Do you know that you can single tank sidemount Al80's? We call it monkey diving but it works really well. I personally don't get why more people don't do it traveling as nothing is smaller than the minimalist sidemount rigs. Just put a 3 or 4 pound weight on the opposite hip from the single tank and you are good to go. Andrew Goring at Sump Uk on Facebook makes some really cool minimalist rigs. He has more options than anyone else.

 

[Remy B.]

Excuse for my ignorance, but why could he not teach if he use sidemount ?, I think that he can as well show his students the safety advantages of the system as well, so may they get interested he can sell the sidemount course as well.

Is it a requirement, that an instructor have to teach in the same rig than the student ?

 

[tbone1004]

Excuse for my ignorance, but why could he not teach if he use sidemount ?, I think that he can as well show his students the safety advantages of the system as well, so may they get interested he can sell the sidemount course as well.

Is it a requirement, that an instructor have to teach in the same rig than the student ?

requirement whether by agency or by the boss, doesn't really matter, if it's a requirement, it's a requirement.... It may not be, but it may. The other potential issue when teaching in a normal environment is that you are unlikely to have these people actually go out and purchase their own gear. If you are teaching in that kind of environment, which I would hazard to guess better than 99% of instructors are, then you should adapt to the type of gear that they will be renting or at least close to.

I dive sidemount, everyone knows this, but I teach in backmount because that is what most people are going to get when they rent gear. If they don't know how to dive backmount because they were taught in sidemount, then you have an issue. The other side of that is in order to teach in sidemount at a destination, you have to be at a destination that has sidemount gear for rent, or require students to purchase prior to the class. This is entirely impractical and unrealistic. Whether they are taught in a bp/w or a jacket, or with primary donate or secondary take, they will have an easier time adapting than being taught in sidemount and have no idea how a backmount rig is supposed to dive.

If you teach through a specialty shop, or you are a technical instructor, or you are teaching out of your own shop, then you can do whatever you want, but if you teach destination diving like most instructors do, then it is not advantageous to try to push sidemount from day 1.

 

[Remy B.]

That is not what I mend, what I mean is that the students do their course in their common backmount single, but the Instructor can do it in his Sidemount.

 

[tbone1004]

That is not what I mend, what I mean is that the students do their course in their common backmount single, but the Instructor can do it in his Sidemount.

as an instructor there are benefits to being in a similar gear configuration as your students. It becomes particularly difficult to demonstrate certain skills when you aren't in the same configuration. I dive in doubles with my students, but I can do all of the gear demonstrations in doubles the same way that they will in singles. What I can't do is demonstrate things like gear removal with my sidemount rig and it also opens up a distraction to the students which you are trying to minimize because they're already distracted by being in a new environment

 

[Coztick]

one could also argue that with less than 80 dives and likely limited experience with other rigs, do you have the experience to know what works well?

I actually have a pretty small list of issues with that rig, but lots and lots of problems with the people selling it which is why I won't recommend it.

You will be happy to hear that I found mine at a swap meet for a fraction of the retail price. No profit for UTD!
Not sure if the issues you have with them are directly related to their products but you have my sympathy.
My point was, as a new diver, I had no problem adapting to sm with this rig. In fact every aspect of my control and comfort improved.
Curious what your issues are with it as I am using it... PM me so not to hijack the discussion.

 

[Arioc]

@Arioc the xDeep cannot mount a single tank on the back and while it is a nice sidemount rig it just can't do it. The Dive Rite is not worth $200 over the SMS75.
If you just want to go to normal hoses, the DGX link I gave has the hose adapters for $11 each. You may or may not want an angle adapter on them, I personally prefer them and have omniswivels on all of my regulators.
Edd is Edd Sorenson, owner of Cave Adventurers and one of the bigger names in sidemount diving

Do you have an option to use rental bc's if you have to dive backmount while you're down there? If so, then I would just use whatever you can get for free to use down there and get a dedicated sidemount rig. My personal favorite is the Hollis Katana, but there are a bunch that work quite well for al80 diving

@Patoux01 and @Remy B. likely due to travelling weight restrictions and/or teaching requirements. Unfortunately when travelling and teaching, you don't always have the ability to take two rigs. That said, there are at least three rigs on the market that do sidemount pretty well, and do single tank backmount mostly well. Armadillo, SMS75, Dive Rite XT. They are all designed for steel tank sidemount, but I have seen all three dive with AL80's and do it well. They are not the lightest rigs on the market though which is a bit counterproductive, but they do handle single tanks just fine, and they are all very capable sidemount rigs

@bamafan with the exception of the Kirby Morgans which are somewhat difficult to find, the ones most people see/use are the cheaper ones that the gear manufacturers sell and I have seen those explode, and I believe you have as well. I have no issues with the ball swivels as I find them much more comfortable and useful when diving because they can go back to straight when stored which is especially nice on stage/deco bottles. The important part there is to maintain them properly and most people fail to do that which is when they start separating

Nah there isn't really an option of using rentals, I mean I could do it but it isn't really a good solution. Also diving in rental BCD while carrying around torches, reels and smb just creates so much clutter. I managed to find the adapter so I'll probably get some of those. Looks like all of the Apeks regulators got sold so it seems like I'll be getting the 3960 + Jetstream after all. Why do you prefer the Omniswivel compared to just the 90 Degree swivel?

That is not what I mend, what I mean is that the students do their course in their common backmount single, but the Instructor can do it in his Sidemount.

Technically there are no rules to what equipment you use yourself while teaching. But it will present difficulties for both yourself and your students. The easiest way for people to learn is by watching what the instructor does, when you start using completely different systems it can get very confusing (especially for people who are not very good students). Even going just from a normal BCD to a Wing starts to make things different. Equipment removal on the surface for example is much more difficult to demonstrate in for example a horseshoe wing (which is what I used to dive in).

Now if we just go beyond the open water course to for example the rescue course. Most people will struggle immensely to complete the full rescue scenario with someone wearing a wing and harness without quick release buckles.

I'm quite lucky that where I work we don't do a huge amount of courses which means as long as I'm doing fun dives I can probably go sidemount without any issues. For everything else backmount will definitively be easier.

Excuse for my ignorance, but why could he not teach if he use sidemount ?, I think that he can as well show his students the safety advantages of the system as well, so may they get interested he can sell the sidemount course as well.

Is it a requirement, that an instructor have to teach in the same rig than the student ?

Sadly where I work we dont do any sidemount courses, I'm also not really interesed in becoming a Sidemount instructor for PADI (which is the company I'm already an instructor for). People who come by with their own sidemount rigs are few and far between and are mostly very experienced divers. Not sure exactly how interested people would be in doing the course if it was available but it would be quite a big investment for the dive centre to get all the rental gear required.