Sidemount, Drysuit and Weight Hell

[FiddlerOnTheRoof]

Hi everyone,

I haven't been posting very much and I am not one to cluter the forum with nonsense but this time I need your input on a few things... I have been diving since 1989 and an avid New England wreck diver since the mid 90's. Most my dives are deep cold water dives with a drysuit and twin back mount steel 100 tanks plus deco tanks etc... In 2013 I decided to take some time off from scuba but I missed it too much and last year decided to return to the depths of the ocean with a slight difference... I decided to get into sidemount!

I am a 210 pound 45 year old man with already a little bit of arthritis on my feet and so the idea of being able to carry the tanks to the water one at a time was a big incentive along with other benefits of sidemount like redundancy.

Anyway, I had a great year 2015 diving with my 7mm wetsuit but as the water got colder, and because I like diving all year I decided to buy a new drysuit and all hell broke loose! With my 7mm and my double steel 100 tanks all I needed was 4 pounds to go diving but now with the new "winter" setup I need a whopping 40 pounds of lead to be able to dive dry. I know I have gained some pounds in the last few years but 40 pounds got me by surprise. I used to only need about 27 pounds in the past so I was not happy!

Here's my problem... The way I used to dive in the past always allowed me to setup my weight in a way that it was easy for me to ditch most of my lead weights if not all in case of an emergency! The way my new sidemount system is setup it has all the weight attached and not easy to ditch. That is making me very uneasy! I tried all kinds of options but have not been able to find one that I like yet. I tried splitting some into a weight belt but it doesn't seem to fit very well with the Hollis sms75.

Here's how I have my weight setup on my sms75:

I insert those weights in that order into the pockets because of balance including the 4 two pounders around the belt.

I also always dive with my double steel 100's and each weigh 45.4 pounds.



So when you do the math with just the lead weights and 2 tanks I am carrying a whopping 130.8 pounds minimum to get me under water with my drysuit!

I would like to find a way of being able to ditch most lead weight in case of an emergency while diving dry. I'm not so worried when I dive with the 7mm because it's only 4 pounds of lead but otherwise with the way I have the weigh setup with the drysuit my only other option would be to ditch it all. That would suck because I would potentially lose all my gear. One thing I have not tried yet are the weight pockets you can buy to attach to the waist belt from Hollis or Diverite and was wondering if any of you use the sms75 with such weight pockets or if you have any ideas how to resolve my problem? Any constructive ideas and/or constructive criticism is welcomed and if you have photos to go with your ideas would also be great.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have to ask, did you by any chance do a drysuit weight check with the new suit? Then added the gear and rechecked?

What kind of new drysuit did you buy and did you also get new undergarments?

I am on my third drysuit. Still own the second one as well. Both seem to have different weighting requirements even though both are shell suits. One fits better than the other and I require less weight with it.

If the suit and undergarments are trapping air and not letting it move throughout the suit that can add to the weight required to sink it.

As for ditchable weight mine is in two pockets on my weight belt. Each pocket has 3lbs in it. I don't need to drop more than one to start to get positive and dropping the weight from both will insure I'm gonna float. The rest of my weight is not what you would call ditchable.

You also have other weight you can ditch in the from of one or both of your cylinders.

 

[FiddlerOnTheRoof]

Hi Jim thank you for your reply.

I have to ask, did you by any chance do a drysuit weight check with the new suit? Then added the gear and rechecked?

No I did not I did not...

The suit I purchased was made in the Ukraine by a friend who is a drysuit maker to my specs. It is made of a thicker material then your typical thin shell drysuit. Definitely a thicker material then the one I owned previously so a bit more buoyant.

 

[Razorista]

It is a very common problem with a drysuit.
I go through that each winter and I do not even dive wetsuits in the summer, just thinner undergarments.
40 pounds sounds like a lot to me, especially with steel tanks, even with the SMS75 needing 4-6 to submerge itself.

Ditching weights is critically dangerous in a good sidemount config, you should always avoid that route.
You should be close to neutrally buoyant with empty tanks, ditching weights leaves you only one option: up fast.
It is very easy to overestimate the amount of lead to drop and you will likely not survive even a small error in deep open water dives.

First of all I would loose the tank boots.
They probably are only half a pound positive each, but their awkward position often needs a lot more than that to compensate.

After that you do not have a lot of options to choose from left:
Do a weight check without tanks, then with empty tanks, then with the full kit.
Empty the drysuit completely, then repeat with a comfortable amount of air padding...
You can probably get rid of a couple of pounds that way.

Otherwise your only option is to switch tanks and use even heavier steel cylinder types with the drysuit.

 

[Patoux01]

You don't need ditchable weights with a drysuit... With a wetsuit, you might want them, but then the first thing I'd do is not dive huge steel tanks with a wetsuit

 

[Razorista]

Even the heaviest steel tank is only a few pounds negative empty. I would rather drop one of those, much more controllable.

To me it sounds like someone in a dead end of small improvements. Something must have gone wrong on the way.
With a large body 30 pounds might be realistic, even a bit more than 30, but 40 surely even makes a sumo wrestler overweighted.

 

[Razorista]

I just remembered:
When I started people made me nervous about the non-ditchable weights in sidemount, too.
I bought two Custom Divers weight pouches Quick Fit Weight Pocket then, both of which I have long ago given to backmount divers for tank weights.
They can be opened easiely and do not open by accident.

You could mount two of those instead of the bullet weights on the webbing (upside down for easy dropping), @FiddlerOnTheRoof.
Would give you the ability to drop two 4 pound pieces, which should be enough to not worry about it again.

There is also the bungee method described here: Simple Method for Adding Weight to a Sidemount Diving Harness.
Also easily dropable, but not very secure without constant maintainance in the long run.

 

[mddolson]

Greetings,
I'm 6 ft, 245 lbs 60yrs old. I sold my LP twin steel fabre 98's last year.
Similar reason, to get the 100lbs off my back.
I had a total knee replacement & have arthritis in my left hip. I have a Nomad XT.
I dive a viking HD, primarly in the great lakes.
A shell suit will be less buoyant than a neoprene, by about 8 lbs.
I dive with 24 lbs on my wight belt & 2 x 2 lb ankle wts=28 lbs.
When I dive in Quebec (Rimouski area) I add 8 lbs (2 x4 on cambands) = 36 lbs for salt water. with 2 aluminums,
I drop 10 lbs when using the steels.= 26 lbs for comparison to your rig.
The water is 2-4°C (35-39°F) so we tend to keep lots of air in the suit, (ski underwear under woolies).
You might be a tad heavy on the weights, but only a couple of pounds if neoprene, 8-10 lbs if you're in a shell suit..

 

[tbone1004]

the sms75 does not need 6lbs to sink itself, maybe 2, but certainly not 6.

Don't worry about ditchable weights with a drysuit, in an emergency you can use the drysuit as secondary lift, though I'd also bring a 50lb lift bag or 2m closed bottom safety sausage that you can use at the surface.

Which HP100's are you using? PST's or Worthingtons? They look like PST's so call that about 3lbs negative with regulators each, Worthingtons would be 5 fwiw.

40lbs in a drysuit is a lot, but you may not be diving it properly... Do two things. First is wear the undergarments you in intend to wear in the winter and do a full buoyancy check in the water but leave the dump valve all the way open so you are in a suit squeeze. This will tell you essentially the "natural" lift of the drysuit. Not flooded obviously, but that's the minimum lead you need with those undergarments. Then close the dump valve all the way and put enough air in to where you are comfortable temperature wise, and that's the lead you need for normal diving. 40lbs sounds high, but not out of the realm of reality for cold water diving, especially if that suit is a 7mm uncompressed neoprene. If it is a bag suit, then it is quite possible that you are just a cold wimp and choose to have that much air in your suit to stay warm, which is perfectly OK if you are OK with it.

 

[Dhboner]

I am roughly the same proportions at the OP (though I am working on reducing those proportions) and I have a DUI FLX Extreme with a Whites Thermal Fusion undergarment. I dive an SMS75 in fresh water with Worthington HP100's and NO additional weight. Now I understand that the OP dives in the ocean so there is a need to compensate for the buoyancy of salt water, but 40 additional pounds seems like way too much lead. If you are not already doing so make sure you squeeze every bit of air out of the suit after you don it before you hit the water. Any trapped air at the start of a dive will be a problem. Then try to add only enough air to eliminate squeeze. I know the OP is an experienced diver so I am sorry for emphasizing basics but something doesn't seem right if he has to add 40 lbs.