Question Should safety information be required for LOB ads

[Howard Baker]

With the apparent significant increase in LOB disasters, I wonder if there should be a concerted effort to include the important safety information about each boat/operator in advertisements. Whist this may not be followed by all, readers can easily make their own inferences if the information is missing.
Sea Story was advertised on the leading agency sites like PADI.com and Liveaboard.com, but appears to be lacking in some key areas like yacht certification, adequate life rafts, cabin exit options.
I recently did a trip to the Maldives and was appalled to have no safety briefing on board. There were no life rafts (not required in Maldives!) - they said they had the dhoni (but it wasn't with the boat all the time). I had to ask where life jackets were. The exit route diagram in my cabin went through a solid wall.
How are we supposed to learn what the safety standards are on these boats?
What are the minimum national standards in different countries and are they actively enforced?
This forum is helpful, but time consuming to find what you want.
Apologies if this has been raised in another thread, but I have been around boats all my life and take safety seriously.

 

[happy-diver]

Mate given another department, and the extra time consumption required to comply
I'm surprised you posted in a section of the board that doesn't cater to your question

Yeah safety is good, and so is practicality, so with this thinking I would just stay home

Are you related to Ricky Baker dude!

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

It depends on where each liveaboard operates - developed countries tend to enforce more rules. E.g. British liveaboards need to be MCA-coded so the standards in safety equipment tend to be higher. Doesn’t guarantee that there won’t be accidents obviously.

Good boats advertise their coding.

 

[Searcaigh]

Don't ask me what the dot is, it just appeared and I can't get rid of it

What dot

Safety briefings and legislation vary from country to country.

Travel to a third world country and they diminish to non-existent.

You won't find any where I normally dive, and you'd be lucky to have sufficient life jackets even on a small boat. On recent survey work I was involved in, people on a commercial boat had to wear life jackets but on a government boat this was not required (I'm pretty sure they didn't even have any).

On the day boats I've been on in Egypt there were no safety briefings whatsoever.

@Howard Baker

I agree that companies advertising LOBs should include some form of safety points on the boats they are advertising, and perhaps that's the way to move forward from this recent Sea Story disaster.

Saying that the LOB conforms to local laws etc., doesn't really cut it because some local laws are either not up to scratch or just ignored (bit of baksheesh goes a long way in certain parts of the world). and you can't expect

In the end it's up to the customer to do a bit of research and saying that check out reports on ScubaBoard from people who have been on specific boats. Divers here are a bit more vocal than places like Trip Advisor etc.

Wild camels couldn't drag me onto an Egyptian LOB these days.

 

[Wookie]

Advertise safety?

Take it from an insider. Liveaboards do not cater to the safety conscious, they cater to those who want to have a relaxing customer service oriented trip.

The OP “did a trip to the Maldives and was appalled that there was no safety briefing.”

Sheeeeit. Appalled would have meant walking off the boat. Appalled would have meant raising a big smelly turd until they provided you with one. You weren’t appalled, you were not willing to walk away from $15,000 to $25,000 to feel “safe”.

Having spent most of 20 years on a liveaboard, I only once saw someone walk away from a trip because, while we were safe, we had the unfortunate policy of being very direct, as in “**** no, we’re not carrying your gear for you. If you’re too big a pussy to carry your own gear, you don’t belong in the big boy ocean”.

Thousands of people a year took that abuse. Because we went where others didn’t and did things they didn’t do, like allow qualified divers to dive to 500 feet if they desired. Dive pristine shipwrecks in 430 feet. See whale sharks in the Gulf of Mexico.

So next time you want to go on a liveaboard do some research about their safety culture. I’m sure you will find glowing reviews about their excellent food and the lively reefs and almost nothing about their flag state inspection results. That’s on you to pick the right one.

As I’ve always maintained, diving and being on boats is not “safe”. It can be done safely, but you have to be willing to leave a situation you find not to be to your liking.

 

[Jai Bar]

I would expect to have at least the bare minimum transparency about the existence of such items:

License/Registration/insurance or whatever is required for proof of seaworthy (you'd expect in a car, bus etc.). I assume that to get it the boat is inspected and among other things, including life rafts, floating devices and so on.

Availability of smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in rooms
Oxygen 100% cylinder + regulator, and *mask*.
CO and O2 sensors for testing scuba cylinders air/gas
Battery charging stations
Night watch
Medical kit

Just show photos of the darn things in website, list / bullet points of what is covered in the on-board safety brief.

A ten-minute tour to show guests where the fire extinguishers, emergency exits are located, and some minimum stuff at least to show that you (boat operator) even care to think about safety, for starts.

Hotels have emergency charts in the rooms' doors, Airlines a safety briefing prior to take off, taxi and bus drivers have the license visible in clear view. No reason a safari which is both of a hotel, taxi and restaurant should have something similar.

Let's not be over-naive, any boat operator can lie about safety, in 3rd world countries a valid license or registration can be useless if one can pay a little bit under the table to obtain it. Smoke sensors or Nitrox analyzers are worth **** without batteries, and dedicated charging station with bad electrical wiring is just a fire waiting to happen. But it has to start somewhere, and guests are not stupid they can observe through a false safety masquerade, it is just that awareness is low unless some accidents happen recently (after a couple of months we forget and do not think any more about safety)

 

[Wookie]

Hotels have emergency charts in the rooms' doors, Airlines a safety briefing prior to take off, taxi and bus drivers have the license visible in clear view.

These things are legislated in the USA. Unless a boat is SOLAS, no such regulations exist outside of the US, UK, Aus, some countries in Europe.

 

[Howard Baker]

Advertise safety?

Take it from an insider. Liveaboards do not cater to the safety conscious, they cater to those who want to have a relaxing customer service oriented trip.

The OP “did a trip to the Maldives and was appalled that there was no safety briefing.”

Sheeeeit. Appalled would have meant walking off the boat. Appalled would have meant raising a big smelly turd until they provided you with one. You weren’t appalled, you were not willing to walk away from $15,000 to $25,000 to feel “safe”.

Having spent most of 20 years on a liveaboard, I only once saw someone walk away from a trip because, while we were safe, we had the unfortunate policy of being very direct, as in “**** no, we’re not carrying your gear for you. If you’re too big a pussy to carry your own gear, you don’t belong in the big boy ocean”.

Thousands of people a year took that abuse. Because we went where others didn’t and did things they didn’t do, like allow qualified divers to dive to 500 feet if they desired. Dive pristine shipwrecks in 430 feet. See whale sharks in the Gulf of Mexico.

So next time you want to go on a liveaboard do some research about their safety culture. I’m sure you will find glowing reviews about their excellent food and the lively reefs and almost nothing about their flag state inspection results. That’s on you to pick the right one.

As I’ve always maintained, diving and being on boats is not “safe”. It can be done safely, but you have to be willing to leave a situation you find not to be to your liking.

I totally disagree that being appalled at no safety briefing means walking away - it meant I satisfied myself on what was and wasn't supplied and where items were. I also discussed it with the cruise director who answered queries I had.
For the record I have been on 2 boats recently which provided excellent safety briefings, so there are exceptions to what some see as the "norm". Indo Siren is now at the bottom of the sea after a fire - but thankfully no casualties or injuries. I am very aware that s**t can happen at sea.
I wonder how long it will be before a serious accident results in someone suing the agency who they booked through where there is evidence of poor or non existent safety procedures. That would wake the industry up. It happens in the cruise industry where the ship owners get sued for inadequate warnings about risks on off boat excursions - White Island eruption in NZ is a recent example close to my home.
I will certainly do my own research for future trips - just wish it was easier with fewer rabbit holes!

 

[Scared Silly]

Do not look to dive agencies. Remember when there were a slew of CO deaths? SOP would have been for a top rated dive OPs to have in line CO detectors. Did they make that part of the standard. Nope.

 

[NothingClever]

I don't have any experience with this LOB company but the video inspires some degree of confidence. Unfortunately, it doesn't change the vessel is a similar four level design with a lot of the superstructure well above the waterline.