Should non-native lionfish be eliminated?

[The Kraken]

Hey, Arch . . .
You working at Gerogia Southern ???

Next time I head down to Savannah I'll have to stop by for a brewski !!!

the K

 

[archman]

Yeah, I'm at GSU for the next year.

We don't have any lionfish here. But there's a chinese tallow I've been thinking about poisoning...

 

[Hank49]

Yeah, I'm at GSU for the next year.

We don't have any lionfish here. But there's a chinese tallow I've been thinking about poisoning...

Looks like eradicating that tree is about as hopeless as going after lionfish.
http://www.fnps.org/palmetto/v13i3p3jubinsky.pdf
It's in 38 of 63 Florida counties.

 

[offthewall1]

This Yahoo article about lionfish got me to thinking. Should areas where lionfish are just starting to appear take steps to eliminate them?

What are your thoughts about non-native species moving into an area?

Venomous lionfish prowls fragile Caribbean waters - Yahoo! News

I'm no marine biologist... but I say absolutely not... at least not in North Carolina.

I've been diving there for a decade... since before Lionfish were present... and I can unequivocally state that all of the species that were there before Lionfish are still there... and in greater numbers than I've ever seen... so unless fish are suicidal and moving en mass to NC to be devoured, I see no reason for eliminating the Lionfish.

It appears to have little if any impact... and I see more fish in NC now than I saw in the earlier days.

 

[dpbishop]

Interesting article debating whether or not invasive species call for intervention :

An extinct notion? | The San Diego Union-Tribune

 

[Scubakevdm]

I'm no marine biologist... but I say absolutely not... at least not in North Carolina.

I've been diving there for a decade... since before Lionfish were present... and I can unequivocally state that all of the species that were there before Lionfish are still there... and in greater numbers than I've ever seen... so unless fish are suicidal and moving en mass to NC to be devoured, I see no reason for eliminating the Lionfish.

It appears to have little if any impact... and I see more fish in NC now than I saw in the earlier days.

I volunteered as a docent for the Caribbean Connections exhibit at the 11th International Coral Reef Symposium in Ft. Lauderdale a few months ago, and was fortunate enough to spend time with and learn from Dr. Judith Lang and Dr. Janie Wulf. My job was to give presentations about the spread of lionfish along the East Coast, and now, unfortunately, in the Caribbean. Most marine biologists agree that the situation is pretty grim. Here is a link to a website that will hopefully help you to understand the extent of the problem.

You'll notice that up until 2003, the lionfish spread northward only, and you might be able to imagine that most of the offspring get carried by the northward flowing Gulfstream current up into very cold waters and die.

In 2004, they started to pop up in the Bahamas, where there are eddies and the more arbitrary dispersion of offspring into suitable habitat has resulted in an explosion. You can also see in recent years, that lionfish have been sighted on the south side of Cuba, which means that now the offspring are going to be exposed to currents which will disperse them throughout the Caribbean.
By the time I did the presentation, I had heard from people at the symposium that they had been seeing them on the South side of Puerto Rico, and as far west as the Yucatan Peninsula.

Something else that might help you to appreciate the gravity of the situation, is an understanding of exactly how delicate the balance is in an already stressed coral reef ecosystem. Without any predators, the lionfish population can grow unchecked until they are limited by food or disease. The food that they eat also keeps coral alive by keeping algae from overgrowing the reef. I know that you seem to feel that they must be eating something other than fish in Noth Carolina, but there are scientists catching and among other things cutting open lionfish to examine the stomach contents that have verified that they are in fact eating reef fish, and not peanut butter and jelly, or pizza. This actually hasn't been much of a surprise to most people.

Here is a picture of a reef overgrown by algae when the long spined sea urchin populations declined due to disease in the 1980's.

This resulted in the absence of key grazers from the coral reef ecosystem. Once algae grows over the coral and blocks the sunlight, soon after the reef will die.

When the unchecked population growth of the lionfish finally runs out of food, guess what? They will have consumed key grazers from the coral reef ecosystem.

 

[Hank49]

Are there actual studies that show a decline in other species in areas where the lionfish has been over the last 10 years?
Is the idea that they are "taking over" premature simply because lionfish are so visible on the reef? They don't try to hide and stand out more than any other species of anything on the reef.

 

[Scubakevdm]

Are there actual studies that show a decline in other species in areas where the lionfish has been over the last 10 years?
Is the idea that they are "taking over" premature simply because lionfish are so visible on the reef? They don't try to hide and stand out more than any other species of anything on the reef.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080717164319.htm

http://www.springerlink.com/content/m702344177gg7005/

Research, is of course ongoing. I'll post better citations when I get home, I can't access the right libraries from this machine.

 

[Scubakevdm]

Research Highlight:
Invasion of Atlantic Coral Reefs by Pacific Lionfish
In 2007, our long-term research on the ecology of coral-reef fishes in the Bahamas was interrupted by a population explosion of Pacific lionfish.� Protected by cryptic color and form, as well as venomous spines, these voracious predators of small fish and other reef animals had been introduced to the Atlantic probably as a result of aquarium releases in the early 1990s.
My lab is actively studying this invasion, focusing on interactions between lionfish and native fishes.� Our first field experiment, conducted by Ph.D. student Mark Albins (right), demonstrated that a single lionfish can reduce recruitment of other reef fishes on a small patch reef by about 80% is just 5 weeks (Albins & Hixon 2008, Marine Ecology Progress Series).� If such effects are typical, this could very well become the most disastrous marine invasion in history.
Click for more details:��������� Text��������� Video

 

[Hank49]

Research Highlight:
Invasion of Atlantic Coral Reefs by Pacific Lionfish
Click for more details:��������� Text��������� Video

The last statement in the article, about studying what keeps the under control in the Indo Pacific seems to be the most logical approach. Of course, introducing a predator of them here is extremely risky also. The Sea Lamprey fiasco in the Great Lakes is one example of the disastorous effect of man's intervention.
But maybe the local fish will adapt and learn to avoid predation, or eat the larvae of them. I saw a show about the toad, bufo marina killing a lot of snakes that would die from its poison when they ate them after they were first introduced to Australia. But, it didn't take long before the snakes learned and stopped eating them.
Yes, groupers may be one to control the lionfish but they must not be the only predator of young ones. I've dived a lot in the Philippines and grouper are rare there also..large ones anyway..but lionfish and other reef fish are plentiful. Or, maybe a virus or other disease that they have never been exposed to in the Indo Pacific will nail them here in the Caribbean. I suppose it won't be long before I see them here in Belize.
And Archman, when I do, I will definitely KILL THE LIONFISH.