Hello!??! The OP has <24 dives...
Should I try a rebreather?
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Whilst we are talking about the differences between CCR and OC.
The summer before I took my course, I was diving OC with a CCR diver in the Channel Islands (UK) on the Princess Ena. Probably something like a 40m dive. I remember ascending up the shot line to decompress. He waited for the other OC divers to arrive, then waved goodbye and disappeared off to the surface. I had to run the clock down on another 20minutes of accelerated stops.
The summer before I took my course, I was diving OC with a CCR diver in the Channel Islands (UK) on the Princess Ena. Probably something like a 40m dive. I remember ascending up the shot line to decompress. He waited for the other OC divers to arrive, then waved goodbye and disappeared off to the surface. I had to run the clock down on another 20minutes of accelerated stops.
Try not! Do, or do not. There is no try.
Going deep is more dependent on tech skills, although rebreathers reduce the amount of gas required to do so.
Diving rebreathers (except for O2 ones) are much much more difficult to use than a normal regulator. They are also fatal if used incorrectly. Unless your diving needs call for a rebreather AND you have a highly skilled people to train, coach, and dive with you, leave considering rebreathers for much later, when and if you outgrow nitrogen and oxygen.
That said, used correctly, rebreathers can alleviate many of the dangers of extreme tech diving to the point of turning what would be extreme on open circuit into a solid repeatable dive for a professional team.
For a hint what "later" means, you'd probably want to have at least 400-800 dives, of them 100+ trimix dives and 300+ total deco dives before considering rebreathers. Get comfortable with dry suits, gas switching, team planning.
Think flying a jet fighter vs flying commercial as a passenger.
Last longer.
Going deep is more dependent on tech skills, although rebreathers reduce the amount of gas required to do so.
Diving rebreathers (except for O2 ones) are much much more difficult to use than a normal regulator. They are also fatal if used incorrectly. Unless your diving needs call for a rebreather AND you have a highly skilled people to train, coach, and dive with you, leave considering rebreathers for much later, when and if you outgrow nitrogen and oxygen.
That said, used correctly, rebreathers can alleviate many of the dangers of extreme tech diving to the point of turning what would be extreme on open circuit into a solid repeatable dive for a professional team.
For a hint what "later" means, you'd probably want to have at least 400-800 dives, of them 100+ trimix dives and 300+ total deco dives before considering rebreathers. Get comfortable with dry suits, gas switching, team planning.
Think flying a jet fighter vs flying commercial as a passenger.
muzikbiz22
Contributor
Some of what appear to be differing opinions in this thread can be reconciled with the simple observation that whether a CCR is an appropriate eventual step for the OP depends on what kind of diving he (or she) wants to do and more importantly an informed self-appraisal about what kind of diver one is.
CCRs can be dived very safely and in some respects more safely. I compare them to a flying a light twin engine plane. A second engine sounds like a no brainer, until you realize that for pilots that are not proficient and current on engine failure procedures, it's actually more dangerous. If you are proficient and current, it is a net plus. If you are not proficient and current, it's a net negative because it introduces new failure modes that require different skills to manage.
CCR is the same way. Are you willing to invest the time and money in proper training and equipment? Are you willing to spend significant time maintaining the unit? Are you willing to regularly practice and maintain "muscle memory" on the essential skills? Are you willing to try to make CCR your primary mode of diving and really get into the guts of understanding how your unit works?
The risk of a CCR is that it can fail you, or you can fail it, in ways that are insidious for the inattentive or complacent diver. If you have good training and stay on top of your skills, not a problem. I believe it can be a safer way to dive because (a) you can prevent or manage those failures and (b) you have much more time to deal with other potential issues on a dive - silt, entanglement, whatever. But, if you are not current and it isn't "your thing," then you can get into a lot of trouble before you even know it.
That's where the self-appraisal comes in. If you dive 2-3 times a year on vacation, or you don't grove on gear and taking care of your stuff - and really learning about it -- or are uninterested in just "staying current" by practicing drills and skills, then CCR isn't a good choice. But, if you are willing to do it properly, and invest the time and attention not only in training but staying in practice, it's a blast.
In any case, I think it is a decision best made after you have more dives and training and, ideally, hang around some tech diver types. You'll learn a lot just by osmosis.
CCRs can be dived very safely and in some respects more safely. I compare them to a flying a light twin engine plane. A second engine sounds like a no brainer, until you realize that for pilots that are not proficient and current on engine failure procedures, it's actually more dangerous. If you are proficient and current, it is a net plus. If you are not proficient and current, it's a net negative because it introduces new failure modes that require different skills to manage.
CCR is the same way. Are you willing to invest the time and money in proper training and equipment? Are you willing to spend significant time maintaining the unit? Are you willing to regularly practice and maintain "muscle memory" on the essential skills? Are you willing to try to make CCR your primary mode of diving and really get into the guts of understanding how your unit works?
The risk of a CCR is that it can fail you, or you can fail it, in ways that are insidious for the inattentive or complacent diver. If you have good training and stay on top of your skills, not a problem. I believe it can be a safer way to dive because (a) you can prevent or manage those failures and (b) you have much more time to deal with other potential issues on a dive - silt, entanglement, whatever. But, if you are not current and it isn't "your thing," then you can get into a lot of trouble before you even know it.
That's where the self-appraisal comes in. If you dive 2-3 times a year on vacation, or you don't grove on gear and taking care of your stuff - and really learning about it -- or are uninterested in just "staying current" by practicing drills and skills, then CCR isn't a good choice. But, if you are willing to do it properly, and invest the time and attention not only in training but staying in practice, it's a blast.
In any case, I think it is a decision best made after you have more dives and training and, ideally, hang around some tech diver types. You'll learn a lot just by osmosis.
Tassi Devil Diver
Contributor
I agree with others get more experience on OC at least progress to deco procedures, then consider your needs and wants from there.
For me I dive CCR whenever I can from 10m to 100m, it's not about being a tool for a job it's is about diving a CCR because I enjoy it, it's the way diving should be!!!
Before you ever learnt to dive you may have had some sort of romantic expectations of what it's like, the silent world and all that, then your do your OW course where you learn all about the limitations of OC, and it's not all that quiet with bubbles blasting past your ears after every breath scaring the fish away, a tank does not really last that long and there are decompression limitations etc.
Well diving a rebreather is what you always thought diving would be like before you did your open water course, quite (only the ticking of flapper valves as you breath in and out, the occasional firing of the solenoid), virtually unlimited gas supply, more relaxing not having to keep an eye on that SPG etc.
Whilst I got a rebreather to assist achieve my diving goals in the 50 to 100m depth range, exploring deep reefs and wrecks, I also enjoy using my rebreather on the shallower dives, doing long dives where I can fully explore a site, taking my time much more relaxing than OC and feeling more at one with my surrounds. I always found on OC I always got to the best part of the dive just as it was time to think about ascending. Now on rebreather I can take all the time I need knowing I have plenty of gas to do what I want and any deco that might accrue.
CCR in general is safe provided you have the right mindset, dive the unit regularly, keep it well maintained and follow your training procedures and unit manufacture recommendation.
For me I dive CCR whenever I can from 10m to 100m, it's not about being a tool for a job it's is about diving a CCR because I enjoy it, it's the way diving should be!!!
Before you ever learnt to dive you may have had some sort of romantic expectations of what it's like, the silent world and all that, then your do your OW course where you learn all about the limitations of OC, and it's not all that quiet with bubbles blasting past your ears after every breath scaring the fish away, a tank does not really last that long and there are decompression limitations etc.
Well diving a rebreather is what you always thought diving would be like before you did your open water course, quite (only the ticking of flapper valves as you breath in and out, the occasional firing of the solenoid), virtually unlimited gas supply, more relaxing not having to keep an eye on that SPG etc.
Whilst I got a rebreather to assist achieve my diving goals in the 50 to 100m depth range, exploring deep reefs and wrecks, I also enjoy using my rebreather on the shallower dives, doing long dives where I can fully explore a site, taking my time much more relaxing than OC and feeling more at one with my surrounds. I always found on OC I always got to the best part of the dive just as it was time to think about ascending. Now on rebreather I can take all the time I need knowing I have plenty of gas to do what I want and any deco that might accrue.
CCR in general is safe provided you have the right mindset, dive the unit regularly, keep it well maintained and follow your training procedures and unit manufacture recommendation.
broncobowsher
Contributor
Several agencies now allow recreational rebreather training even at the OW or AOW level.
I am allowed to train someone who has never dived before to dive a CCR. I have had a lot of requests, I have advised against for many of them. IF you have the correct mindset and attitude, there is no issue with going to CCR early in your diving. A lot will depend on the unit you want to dive, there are "simpler" units than others.
There are a lot of things to consider before deciding to go CCR with 24 dives but it CAN be done. Just make sure you get advice from someone who will be happy to turn you away from it if they feel it isnt for you, and not someone who wants to sell a course.
I am allowed to train someone who has never dived before to dive a CCR. I have had a lot of requests, I have advised against for many of them. IF you have the correct mindset and attitude, there is no issue with going to CCR early in your diving. A lot will depend on the unit you want to dive, there are "simpler" units than others.
There are a lot of things to consider before deciding to go CCR with 24 dives but it CAN be done. Just make sure you get advice from someone who will be happy to turn you away from it if they feel it isnt for you, and not someone who wants to sell a course.
fsardone
Solo Diver
Right, that is the point. You need to perform some tasks which are attention intensive in a foreign environment which is distracting.
Flying school usually start on easy planes (fixed gear, fixed prop) and then move you to complex (flaps, rectractable gear and variable pitch prop) to ease you in.
On the other hand the military starts you directly on complex aircrafts (sometime jets) and kick you out of training if you under perform. Different objectives: teach you and allowing to overcome difficulties or select the apt people for a complex task.
So, as the above analogy, there are people that will be able to start on Rebs and people for which starting on rebs will be a too steep learning curve and will be weeded out of the training or end up spending more in training directly on reb compared with training on OC, gaining experience and then training on rebs.
My take is: gain a solid OC experience first. A deep reb diver that has to bailout will be an OC diver that has to handle the most difficult part of an OC dive: a multigas decompression with all the stage rotations, distractions coming from changing computer settings, stress for being in bailout, uncertainty about own SAC rates, doubts about gas planning adequacy and all the risks involved with switching to the wrong gas without adequate familiarity and confidence.
So if the final aim is to tech diving then OC path is advisable building solid experience and then switch to CCR. If, on the other end the final aim is rec diving within no (staged) deco limits then welcome to start CCR. Later learning with stages, gas planning, switches etc etc, can be done but will be harder to metabolise and become integral part of diver thinking. It will be much harder for the instructor to achieve those (in my opinion) needed mental paths.
Just my 2 (euro) cents
Cheers
There's a lot of scientific and research diving conducted on rebreathers. UF has a fleet of Optimas that are used for fish counts and I know some guys in Hawaii that are using Prism's for deep reef work. The UF team finds that the silence of the rebreather makes their presence less obtrusive to the fish population.
Having said that, anyone that's seriously contemplating a rebreather should have a fair amount of open circuit experience and comfort in the water so that they can stay on top of the unit. Additionally, because research diving also introduces a lot of perceptual narrowing -- it's easy to get focused on counting fish and forget to monitor gauges -- a person that is interested in using a CCR for research purposes should have substantial time on the CCR before they go do their work.
I hesitate to put numbers on things because different people develop at different paces, and some people will never be adequately ready to use a rebreather for research diving no matter how much time they spend in the water, but at a bare minimum I would think 100 dives would be a good starting point for CCR training and probably 50 hours on the unit before beginning research work would be good starting points.
Now.. In answer to the question of "Should I try a rebreather?" -- Sure! Why not? If you have an option to do a "try dive" there's no reason not to do it. It will give you a new experience and may be a fun way to spend half a day.
Having said that, anyone that's seriously contemplating a rebreather should have a fair amount of open circuit experience and comfort in the water so that they can stay on top of the unit. Additionally, because research diving also introduces a lot of perceptual narrowing -- it's easy to get focused on counting fish and forget to monitor gauges -- a person that is interested in using a CCR for research purposes should have substantial time on the CCR before they go do their work.
I hesitate to put numbers on things because different people develop at different paces, and some people will never be adequately ready to use a rebreather for research diving no matter how much time they spend in the water, but at a bare minimum I would think 100 dives would be a good starting point for CCR training and probably 50 hours on the unit before beginning research work would be good starting points.
Now.. In answer to the question of "Should I try a rebreather?" -- Sure! Why not? If you have an option to do a "try dive" there's no reason not to do it. It will give you a new experience and may be a fun way to spend half a day.
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