Should I keep my mouth shut (again)

[scuubaadoo]

So I'm at Dutch springs this w/e and I look over and there is this gent struggling to get into his drysuit. He looked like Houndini struggling to get out of a straight jacket when I notice three students all set and waiting on this instructor. As I look over all three have their octo's over their LEFT shoulder, so I ask if they are Europeans as I believe that set up is more prevelant over there. Nope they are from right here and they "don't have any idea why the tech set the regs up that way". Hey you can have any setup you want but I believe you should know why your set up works this way. So I say that if they dive with other people they should remember to inform them that their octo is on their left side, which is not the customary way around here. They look a bit confused and start to look at others around them. Later I ask the instructor about it and he say "I teach NAUI, PADI and SSI and I THINK SSI teaches it that way so that in an out of air situation you can cover your primary with your right hand and donate with your left, but it really doesn't matter to me since I have a Spare Air"

So would you have said anything to these new students and does any one know if SSI teaches octo on the left shoulder? My dive buddy says I butt my nose where it doesn't belong.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

 

[Ber Rabbit]

One of my dive buddies is an SSI instructor and I've never seen any of his students with octo over the left shoulder. The local shop teaches SSI as well and their rental gear is set up with both regs on the right.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[Rick Inman]

So would you have said anything to these new students ...?

I wouldn't.

I see all kinds of stuff. And unless it is obviously going to kill someone, it's someone I'm diving with, or they directly ask me, then I try to keep my mouth shut.

The most I might do is kinda' what you did. I might ask questions. Like, "Hi, I notice you are diving with a spare air bungeed around your head, and I've never seen that before. How does that work?" Possibly in a conversation like this I might be asked for feedback. Otherwise, I try to shut up.

Some years back I was invited to dive with some ScubaBoard folks in Seattle. They had these ridiculously dangerous kits. Their backup regs were strapped around their necks with bungee, their primary regs were on hoses so long that they had to wrap them around their necks (can anyone say, choke!), they couldn't release their weight belts because of some convoluted crotch strap, no split fins, no snorkels, and they had their masks on their foreheads out of the water! Talk about dangerous!

However, I managed to keep my mouth shut. I didn't comment on their kits and they didn't comment on mine. But I did watch them dive, and then it was me that started asking for feedback on my own kit.

I'm not suggesting that their was anything to learn from the divers you discribed (except maybe what not to do), just that people learn best from their own desire to change rather than being told.

 

[Sas]

When I did my OW through SSI, I wasn't taught either way as far as octopus placement. The rental regs I had, had them on the right and everybody I have seen dive, has them on the right. We were taught to check with our buddies on what will happen in an OOA situation and how we/them will donate gas. My instructor on my deep course, for example, had his occy around his neck and said if we ever went OOA we were to grab his primary.

If I was in your position, I doubt I would have said anything. As basically, a bunch of students aren't going to listen to some random (no offense ) come over and try to teach them something, especially if their instructor has not covered it. People are going to trust their scuba instructor over other divers. If I was really worried I would have found out what shop/agency the instructor was affiliated with and brought it up with them. They could have a decent explanation for the instructor's comments.. Perhaps discussing buddy plans like what to do in an OOA situation had not been covered in the course yet... or the students were not very bright and didn't remember... or they were a little disturbed at a stranger coming up to tell them about how to scuba dive. Or the instructor was bad, either way a call to the shop/agency could clear things up if you are worried.

But yea, if I had $1 for every time I heard an instructor (well the ones that own shops in particular) say something dumb I would be rich (and I've only been diving a short while ).

 

[tstormdiver]

My LDS is SSI. All our student equipment comes with the octos on the right side. The Instructors/ Dive Cons at our shop dive with either the octo on the right side, a bungied octo under their chins or an integrated secondary air source. The differences are explained to the students early on, to help keep the confusion down. With my recreational gear, I typically dive with a 5ft primary hose & a bungied octo. I can deploy the 5ft hose quickly & either give the OOA diver a little space to collect themselves or I have the option to immediately take hold of them (if they are in an all out panic) to control the situation. The students at our shop are taught to donate the primary & for themselves to use the octo, so the positioning of the octo is less important (as you are not giving it to a most likely panicked, OOA diver), as long as the donor knows where it is & how to locate it for quick deployment for themselves. There have been arguments about which method (which regulator to donate to an OOA buddy) to use. I originally learned to donate the secondary, but was "converted" to donating the primary with no real issues. I'm not going to get that argument going again. Most agencies say that the octo should be within a triangle around the torso. The chin & outside of the lower ribs being the points. Whether the octo is on left or right, bungied around the neck or an integrated air source it all falls in this category. While the octo being on the left may be a bit unorthodox, it isn't necessarily wrong. Hopefully the instructor took some time to explain to his students different configurations, & methods of deployment in an OOA situation. It is always prudent, also, to ask about how deployment is done by a diving buddy, especially a new diving buddy who may have an entirely different configuration than yours.

 

[deco_martini]

Octo over left shoulder was the NASDS way to do it. There is a reasoning behind it and in my practice it works better. Apparently, Aqua Lung and the other BC companies didn't think it was so bad either since a octo integrated power inflator is over-left.

Imagine if you will, students trained for octo over-right who are asked "why isn't that on the left side?" Most of them wouldn't be able to tell you the reasoning why either unless they were the kind of eager beaver who asked.

 

[Rick Inman]

Apparently, Aqua Lung and the other BC companies didn't think it was so bad either since a octo integrated power inflator is over-left.

Well, just to be picky , an "octo" by definition is donated to the OOG diver, and the inflater-integrated back-up reg is breathed by the donater, and is not an octo.

 

[deco_martini]

Well, just to be picky , an "octo" by definition is donated to the OOG diver, and the inflater-integrated back-up reg is breathed by the donater, and is not an octo.

True. I am still consuming enough caffeine to "get right" this morning. Pardon the error.

 

[eponym]

Later I ask the instructor about it and he says "I THINK SSI teaches it that way so that in an out of air situation you can cover your primary with your right hand and donate with your left.

Well, I teach through SSI (was assisting with new instructor checkouts this weekend) and the SSI OW courses have taught donating the primary for years. Their manuals and videos are uniform in showing the alternate second stage hose coming from the first stage around the diver's right side (except, of course, where the second stage is integrated into the inflator assembly).

So would you have said anything to these new students? My dive buddy says I butt my nose where it doesn't belong.

Tough one. Would have had to be there to say yes or no. But given what you've said I surely would have tried to meet the instructor one-on-one later (for coffee or something stronger) and find out what's going on. Hearing "I think" from another instructor, in regards to gear configuration, is worrisome.

-Bryan