Sharks vs Squid...

[dlent]

Adventure diving does not harm sharks or squid. They are just swimming with the squids, they are not hurting them. Once I get 200 dives under my belt, I may go on one of these squid trips. In the meantime, I'll be diving with sharks again in the Bahamas during April.

I'm sorry, I've never heard of your store, company or what ever you call it, but the intro on your page says "survive the dive" and has a video of a giant squid aproaching the camera, which implies being attacked by giant Squids and I don't see that as conservationist at all, it seems a lot more as adventure diving, and to me it seem like a Pamplonada! Going to a place to be chased or attacked by wild animals! And I dont think that's a good thing for the enviroment or these animals!

 

[ThatsSomeBadHatHarry]

in opposition (only partial) to archman, i am completely fascinated by cephalopods. don't get me wrong, sharks are contagious in their own way. the sharks are breathtaking creatures and i absolutely cant wait until i dive with them (fingers crossed). There is something about the cephalopod, though. absolutely amazing. i think it's how they move and the photoreactive cells of certain members of the family. i dont know, and sorry for getting further off topic.

 

[pablovi]

Here's a good informational thread about the Baja dive ops. Nice pics too.
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=114261&highlight=humboldt+squid

Their website IS overly dramatic, but that's to cater to the adventure-type divers that live for unusual stuff like this. Cephalopod biologists don't seem to object to their operation; on the contrary, their video footage provides for an excellent way to educate the public. The squid aren't injured, minus the occasional lost arm. That's the squid's fault.

That was my point, but to me it's and adventure type bussines disguised as a "eco" diving site.

And it's not the squid fault, you have no bussines doing there, the squid do.
I'm sorry, but I do not like Adventure type diving when the main reason is to survie the dive! that means getting attacked by the squids, and probaly hurting them. I've dive with hammerhead sharks without a cage, but I would never interact with another creature. speacilly holding them and showing them to the camera!

 

[archman]

Please try to limit postings to those relevant to the original questions. Gonetobaja has some very specific queries, which deal with marketing and equipment.

 

[gonetobaja]

Ah, another one...good.

The motto "Survive the Dive" is the motto of our dive company. We are also involved in other projects that are not as safe as our "Squid Tour" . As far as the video footage is concerned what it implys is truth. That is a shot of an 8ft long Humboldt Squid comming in on a diver. When properly armored a person armed with a good camera system can get some shots of one of the most alien animals on the planet. The down side is that in order to get that close you have a chance of being attacked. We offer a cage to dive in but to my suprise most of our customers have been opting....., no, requesting to use the Neptunic chain mail suits www.neptunic.com and dive with no cage. They are fully aware of the chance of attack.

Do they always attack? No. The more we dive with them the more we learn what will make them more likely to attack and what types of situations where they are less likely to attack. We are not foolish enough to think that we can predict their behavior every time, or foolish enough to think we understand every behavior. After years of dives and filming we now feel confident enough to bring other people, and keep them and the squid from injury.

Where is the conservation?

I will put it in my own simple opinion. Conservation is any self sustaning activity that promotes the betterment of an animal species. Diving with the squid dosent kill them, fishermen who catch them do. Although many world markes enjoy platefulls of Calimari fingers, there will come a time when even the stocks of squid will start to change. When the stocks of squid get low there will need to be an established program for interaction and study on the animals in place. A way that makes viewing the animals more profitable than killing them. It is also possible to reduce the pressure of overfishing by offering the fishermen alternative methods of income without actually changing jobs. Everyone bennifits, more squid live. Thats conservation.

I agree to the fact that this dive may not be for everybody. Shark cage diving is not for everybody. We thought we where going to have to invest in cages but it looks like most of the customers want armor.

The enviornment is the blue water off of Santa Rosalia. The Gulf of California. Drifting along with a camera while hooked to a Panga with a steel cable seems to me as having a very low enviornmental impact. In addition we are licenced through the Mexican Government with FM-3 guide documents and work visas.

Seems like Adventure Diving?

Is there any kind of diving thats NOT adventure diving? To me every time I put on a dive tank I feel like Im going on an adventure, even when I used to clean hulls....:14:

SCUBA diving and adventure are almost the same thing to me.


GTB
www.sea-wolves.com

 

[gonetobaja]

Archman,

Thats the kind of info Im looking for. We think there is a shark population in a certain area of the Gulf of CA. We where thinking of investing in cages and a bigger boat to go after that market. When our customers started actually calling for the squid trips they mostly wanted to wear the Neptunic suits. Those things are pretty expensive. For a tour of 4 customers all in armor I could buy another boat and cages. Most of the new customers have been photographers. Even the customers who expressed interest in the cage said they wanted the armor as an option for the 2nd or 3rd day. Shark diving involves chumming and bait and other stinky nasty stuff that I generaly dont like in my boat. I guess we could do both but a dual operation like that takes a good chunk of change.

By the way, thats another question I have.

How many dives is enough to qualify a person to dive with the Humboldts? I have met people with 20 dives that seemed ready to me. Right now Scott the owner of Sea Wolves Unlimited and Patrick the owner of www.sharkdiver.com have set the limit for very experienced divers. Id like some opinions on if the limits are too high.

Saftey is of course the most important thing, thats why its such a hard number to make. If someone gets hurt you know where gonna hear it. "It was an inexperienced diver in a situation that they should not have been in".

Of course everyone has to sign a waiver. The point is to make it a fun, interesting, and SAFE experience to the divers and the animals, 200 dives is alot to have for a recreational diver though. Id hate to cut out people that want to do the dive because of those limits, but where do we draw the line?

Actually Archman, I hear the same thing on the squid population down here. The thing that we are concerned about is that when all of the conservation programs that are starting and ongoing kick in, there will be a change in the Gulf of CA. Billfish, sharks, and other pelagic fish that are being heavily fished now may slowly start to come back. Restrictions on long lines, gill nets, and catch and release practices will eventually make a difference. The pressure on the squid will increase as these predators start to increase in numbers. Combine that with a steady increase in the Squid fishery and a estimated 2 year growth rate and it may be easier to hit the Humboldt Squid population than we think.

Thanks for all of the info and opinions guys, this board is like a godsend for a guy like me. When in doubt ask Scubaboard.....:14:

GTB
www.sea-wolves.com

 

[archman]

GTB, you can do shark encounter dives without chumming or cages. Like pablovi said, those scalloped hammerhead aggregations don't need any special diving considerations... except a boat.

Any site where divers can expect to see one or more sharks qualifies as a shark encounter. I would expect that most Baja seamount tops would keep resident shark populations. I thought sharks WERE one of the reasons divers went to Baja... it's in my travel book.

How many dives is enough to qualify a person to dive with the Humboldts? I have met people with 20 dives that seemed ready to me. Right now Scott the owner of Sea Wolves Unlimited and Patrick the owner of www.sharkdiver.com have set the limit for very experienced divers. Id like some opinions on if the limits are too high.

An AOW cert would be highly recommended, given the freaky environment. Between the armor, cables, and squid, I'd stick with moderately seasoned divers. I'd be wary of letting teens do the dives, either. More inclined to panic, and their parents might complain. Parents can and do have the time and influence to cause dive operators untold misery, even outside the U.S..

Now if you can devise a way to make a perforated acrylic box to hold new or inexperienced divers safely, heck anybody would be fair game! You could call it "Discover Giant Squid".

 

[gonetobaja]

Arch,

As you know I have been running freedive spearfishing trips for a while now. I was always amazed that through the years I only saw sharks twice. They where both hammerheads and only about 5 ft long. A stringer of fish never brought in sharks.

One time I was in the desert by my house in mexico. We where looking for where the "city Dump" was. A place where you would burn your trash with piles of cans and bottles. On our way to find it we smelled the smell of dead stuff. We thought that must be the dump. When we drove to where we thought the smell was comming from we found a big pile of baby hammerhead shark heads. I have seen Pangas come in with a haul of baby hammerhead and silky sharks. I think thats why I never see sharks. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but thats what I see. On the good side, there is a pretty good population of large Black tip and Mako sharks but I never see them. They are around the seamounts but they only come up to the surface depths in my areas in the late dusk or very early morning. We have have also been looking for a shark that has been taking bites out of the sea lions down here. I have some pics of a sea lion that had a real bad day. The truth is that we see the squid with much more regularity than we see sharks.

Thats just how it is in my area from my observations.

As far as diving with any animal that has the potential to cause me harm, I wear armor. Yes I have heard that a school of hammerhead sharks is not dangerous....just cant seem to buy it. I still feel that no wild animal is ever truly trustworty. With my luck Ill be the first one to get bit from hammerheads at El Bajo.

Also from a business standpoint, If a person comes looking for sharks, you need to have a pretty good way of showing them a shark or they will be bummed out and your business will fail.

What do you think about a surface cage that you could put a snorkeler in? Mostly mesh to let the current flow through with a panel of plexi for viewing? The main problem with the plexi box is the current tosses and twists it around so you kinda have to hook it right to the side of the boat.

I guess if we did that then the person could jump right in the top of the plexi box and just use a snorkel.

Good jellyfish protection too...

As far as diver qualifications Im still looking for opinions. Maybe I could have different systems for different rates of divers. From Snorkelers to Scuba.

thanks for the input!

GTB
www.sea-wolves.com

 

[archman]

Huh. Well, if your area doesn't have any sharks, then you can't have any shark dives. Solves that problem.

What do you think about a surface cage that you could put a snorkeler in? Mostly mesh to let the current flow through with a panel of plexi for viewing? The main problem with the plexi box is the current tosses and twists it around so you kinda have to hook it right to the side of the boat.

Yeah, the surface chop would be a real issue. And with a mesh cage, there's still a risk of a squid arm tip snagging someone. You'd need to have the cage fairly squid-impervious. What you want is high visibility, though. A thick mesh detracts from that. It'd be a real pain in the butt to maintain and keep clean, too.

Acrylic sheets are pretty cheap, at least at half-inch thickness. I'd be wary of using anything less than a full inch, however. You could bolt the sheets together with stainless steel or aluminum. Drill 1-2 inch diameter holes along the side and top sheets for water flow; but not the bottom sheet where divers would rest their legs.

So long as the sheets are sufficiently supported to prevent sagging, they're pretty maintenance-free and a breeze to clean. Just wipe them with a rag from time to time. Scratches can be buffed out.

Acrylic's heavy though. You'd need a decent boat winch to move it around.

I guess if we did that then the person could jump right in the top of the plexi box and just use a snorkel.

Do the squids commonly come up that shallow? I thought you had to hover on those cables 20-40 feet down to get good "interaction".

 

[Bruciebabe]

Transparent cage already being done in South Africa for GW dives.
They use Polycarbonate though, not acrylic. They need the strength!!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/02/06/ultimate.shark/index.html