Shark bites film maker - Farallon Islands, California
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HalcyonDaze
Contributor
As stated earlier, it does make a practical difference; a 17-ft GW that is curious or defensive I might have a chance of surviving. One that either mistakes me for food or thinks I am food, well ... I don't have any illusions about how well that's going to go. In this particular case it sounds like a classic attack scenario; Elliott was on the surface and the shark came after him from below. However, given that he managed to push it off with a camera and get away with some nasty arm lacerations when an animal that size will hit full-size sealions hard enough to tear them in half, it's a good bet the shark was just taking a potshot rather than actually trying for a kill.
As an aside, during all the hubbub back in January about Ocean Ramsay getting pictures taken swimming alongside a probably 20+ ft GW feeding off a whale carcass in Hawaii I checked in with a friend of mine who was actually there. He said while he wasn't crazy about all the photo ops the shark did hang with them for more than an hour and even followed them away from the carcass. Given a couple rough-toothed dolphins swam up and started playing around with the shark, even brushing up against it at a few points, it seemed like everything else was getting the message that when it was stuffed full of whale blubber was a good time to take a close look.
markmud
Self Reliant Diver--On All Dives.
Hi Halcyon,
Your statement above clarifies things. I got the impression that you were ascribing human-like qualities to Great Whites including their intellect.
It is really simple for a shark: Food is good while neoprene and steel scuba tanks are not good.
Mr. Great White says:
I, GW, am hungry and that black object blowing bubbles looks like a yummy sea lion. From that point, everything is instinctual. No thought, no remorse, no morality, no worries. It doesn't even think, "sheeite, that funny seal chipped one of my teeth and its skin feels rubbery."
markm
HalcyonDaze
Contributor
I'd say they're a bit more discriminating than that; compare most reports of divers or even surfers getting hit by GWs and what happens when they hit a seal or sealion and the latter is far more violent - and fatal. There are exceptions to this (i.e., a big GW that chomps right through a surfer's torso and his board in one bite), but there's a credible argument that most of the time they know we aren't the usual fare and are going for an investigation rather than an outright killing blow. That said, when you're dealing with a predator that size a little "investigation" with razor-sharp teeth can do mortal damage.
I agree on the no remorse and no morality bits, but I'd argue they have thoughts and worries. I'm not going to credit them with any Flipper-grade antics, but apex predators are not stupid. A bull elephant seal is almost as big as an adult GW and even a big sealion is essentially a black bear with flippers. There's no shark EMTs to treat scratched-out eyes or other potentially crippling injuries, so the GW has to do everything it can to stack the odds, hit its prey unawares, and disable it in one strike. That takes some thought, and having been cage-diving with them in 100+ ft viz it was spooky how they still managed to sneak up on us. They also know enough fear to run like hell when an orca pod shows up.
Protondecay123
Contributor
The northern part of those islands has a DOE nuclear waste dump site. Atomic Waste Reported Leaking in Ocean Sanctuary Off California
markmud
Self Reliant Diver--On All Dives.
This:
And this:
Well, which is it? Apex predator or fish of prey? Are they the apex predators or are killer whales the apex predator?. I have witnessed a shark being killed by a marlin. Which species is apex in that example.
@Akimbo was right. "Mistaken, hungry, curious, or defensive makes no practical difference."
I repeat, you seem to be trying to attribute human like qualities to a base animal without ever psychoanalyzing a GW.
markm
And this:
Well, which is it? Apex predator or fish of prey? Are they the apex predators or are killer whales the apex predator?. I have witnessed a shark being killed by a marlin. Which species is apex in that example.
@Akimbo was right. "Mistaken, hungry, curious, or defensive makes no practical difference."
I repeat, you seem to be trying to attribute human like qualities to a base animal without ever psychoanalyzing a GW.
markm
HalcyonDaze
Contributor
Human-like qualities? Or do humans have animal-like qualities?
For the record, I qualified that I don't expect Flipper-like antics out of them; that includes complex emotions. You on the other hand seem to think animal behavior has just two levels - anything not on a human level is just a digestive system with a nub of a brain to point to the next meal. I've seen enough of shark behavior to know it's between those two extremes; for instance the tigers at Tiger Beach will pick up cameras, tanks and BCs, and in once case a diver (by the tank) and run off with them like a dog expecting to be chased. If nobody makes a fuss, the shark then drops the item. We had a DM here in Florida almost two years ago whose hand was on a bait crate a tiger shark was mouthing; the shark bit the hand and in the words of one observer, "knew she made a boo-boo and ran to hide." I can't speak for the veracity of that description, but the DM made it ~65 ft to the surface without further injury and the next day six hours of chumming didn't bring the tiger around.
As far as the "no practical difference," well ... would you rather be this guy? Or the SharkCam? Kind of a big practical difference getting booped on top of the head versus getting hit by a truck with a bear trap on the front bumper.
On the orca question, I've only seen a few cases where it looked like orcas were regularly preying on whites (rather famously, there were a pair of male orcas in South Africa a few years ago that went on a killing spree). Transient orcas are usually gunning for marine mammals; it seems more like white sharks are targets of opportunity. There does seem to be a population of orcas in New Zealand that specializes in preying on sharks and rays, but I don't know if anyone has seen them taking out whites on a regular basis. Now those are some animals I would definitely ascribe more complex mental capabilities to - sometimes up to the point of "yeah, they're doing that just to be ***holes."
Bob DBF
Contributor
From what I understand, the orcas coming up from SoCal to the Farrallon islands killed the GW but was not interested in it as a food source.
When I dive, SCUBA and free, the NorCal coast, I know the landlord is around, I just hope he isn't interested in forclosing on me.
Bob
SapphireMind
Contributor
I would like to never meet a GW while diving in NorCal. I know they will likely be far more interested in other creatures, but I'm very happy to give them a wide berth! I'll stick to fishies, mammals and nudibranches 
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