Sexual Assault: Discussion

[NauticalbutNice]

My point is that its very easy to ruin someones life by making "false" or "misleading" accusations.

I agree but surely all accusers should be viewed as truthful until proven as liars? Should we not give victims the same courtesys we allow criminals?

Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

 

[Aaron Neely]

well, you can't prove anything. so... let's strike all laws, they're just interpretations
anyway



and by the way, you are wrong. intent must be proven EVERY SINGLE TIME a
prosecutor takes a case to a jury that requires intent, which include, among others,
first degree murder.

If i carry a gun into a store...yes thats intent,to rob, to kill whatever. But if im diving without a wetsuit, im doing to assault someone? where is the intent in the case this thread is about?

 

[michaelp68]

Who determines "intent" how do you knwo what someone is thinking? you cant possibly prove" "intent"

You most certainly can.

First, there are times when it is harder to prove or understand intent.

Second, you should also understand that on other occasions, it's not really difficult at all and it's rather obvious.

For example, a male instructor reaches for a female student during a dive emergency and grabs a handful of private part over a wetsuit or bathing suit top, and the instructor quickly lets go of the private part. Did the instructor intend to sexually assault by grabbing the student's private part? Maybe yes or maybe it was an accident while trying to save the student's life.

But on the other hand, if the instructor unzipped the wetsuit and slid a hand underneath a bathing suit in order to grab the private part, is there any question of intent?

The reality is that someone's conduct, and the facts surrounding it, often permit reliable judgments of intent.

Michael

 

[H2Andy]

My point is that its very easy to ruin someones life by making "false" or "misleading" accusations.
thankfully PADI did the right thing and banned this guy. But look at Kobe Bryant. did he rape that girl?
not sure, the case was dropped but he will always be viewed by society as a rapist.

you are correct. a false accusation of sexual assault can have very bad
results for the accused. and no one should be falsely accused, of course.

however, by far, the greater problem is that society DOES NOT want to believe
victims when they come forth. and their lives are hurt by the attack in ways
few people can understand.

as to Kobe Bryant, his life is far from ruined. last i checked he was making
millions, is hugely popular with the fans, and has a great future. this isn't a good
example of (the very real) disastrous consequences a false report of any crime
can have on aynone.

 

[mrobinson]

My point is that its very easy to ruin someones life by making "false" or "misleading" accusations.QUOTE]
Right - so shouldn't the many of people who have some harm done to them be able to voice and be able to charge them through the law we have without being labelled as a liar?

 

[Aaron Neely]

I agree but surely all accusers should be viewed as truthful until proven as liars? Should we not give victims the same courtesys we allow criminals?

Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

Yes you are right but the "accused" should be view in the same light untill proven guilty.If I am having consentual sex with a woman,totally consentual. and the next day she sees me with another woman and tells the police I "raped" her. Im pretty well screwed. because of what "she says"

 

[Aaron Neely]

You most certainly can.

First, there are times when it is harder to prove or understand intent.

Second, you should also understand that on other occasions, it's not really difficult at all and it's rather obvious.

For example, a male instructor reaches for a female student during a dive emergency and grabs a handful of private part over a wetsuit or bathing suit top, and the instructor quickly lets go of the private part. Did the instructor intend to sexually assault by grabbing the student's private part? Maybe yes or maybe it was an accident while trying to save the student's life.

But on the other hand, if the instructor unzipped the wetsuit and slid a hand underneath a bathing suit in order to grab the private part, is there any question of intent?

The reality is that someone's conduct, and the facts surrounding it, often permit reliable judgments of intent.

Michael

Everybody keeps referring to how he unzipped the wetsuit and grabbed her privates...is that what happened? i dont remember reading that.

 

[H2Andy]

Yes you are right but the "accused" should be view in the same
light untill proven guilty.If I am having consentual sex with a woman,totally
consentual. and the next day she sees me with another woman and tells the police
I "raped" her. Im pretty well screwed. because of what "she says"

why are you so suspicious of women? do you know women who would do this?
hang out with different women, dude.

this has never worried me, personally, anymore than falsely being accused of
murder one (like many innocent people have)

 

[NauticalbutNice]

Yes you are right but the "accused" should be view in the same light untill proven guilty.If I am having consentual sex with a woman,totally consentual. and the next day she sees me with another woman and tells the police I "raped" her. Im pretty well screwed. because of what "she says"

The accused is given the same right. That's what I said.

The accused in the case originally posted was struck off by PADI. This, to me, suggests that there was more to the story than mere allegations.

And I doubt many women are as vidictive as you believe they might be.

Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

 

[Aaron Neely]

My point is that its very easy to ruin someones life by making "false" or "misleading" accusations.QUOTE]
Right - so shouldn't the many of people who have some harm done to them be able to voice and be able to charge them through the law we have without being labelled as a liar?

Absolutly. did anyone even say that all accusers are liars??? I certainly havent.