Sexual Assault: Discussion

[NauticalbutNice]

Can't really say cos I'm not a mod but I was typing re: your post about getting kicked out of PADI when all the other posts happened!

I couldn't honestly talk about TOS violations cos I don't know anything about them.

Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

 

[chickdiver]

I will make this one comment. The discussion of the incident in terms of: "I do not see how this could physically happen..." is reminiscent of the old: "A man can't rape a woman unless she is willing..." line of foolishness.

Any discussion along those lines is out of bounds. Period. I hope I make myself perfectly clear.

I agree with you that discussing specifics of what could happen is unproductive.

What would be productive, however, is a discussion of how those of us who are professionals deal with the potential for accidental things and what we do to put students at ease. Perhaps by helping to educate people we can help them to be at ease and able to recognize what is inappropriate vs. what is accidental.

 

[triton94949]

Regarding being expelled from a training agency, instructors are normally warned in the ITC that any complaint of any kind of a sexual nature to headquarters could easily result in punitive action or expulsion. Instructors must always be vigilant that they are not misunderstood nor that they cross any lines.

What happens in a bar is another thing. In that case you have the bouncer to deal with, and if significantly serious, the laws of the state in which you reside. There ought to be a big difference between behavior at a bar versus in a scuba class. A scuba instructor is a person in a high position of trust. Thus the training agencies show no tolerance when they receive documented complaints.

When demonstrating, since the chest strap area is somewhat controversial, it might be better always to demonstrate with a male training assistant.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

OK, I'll chime in....

Been following these two threads, and personally I think it's a sad situation, whatever happened. I'm not going to defend either party.

My problem is everybody (well not everybody) has an opinion, but we haven't even heard one side of the story, have we?, let alone both, just a blanket statement of sexual assault, which I believe is a broad scope to say the least. Therefore we're left with conjecture and speculation, which is completely pointless to argue.

We in America are all so quick to judge, without all the facts, peoples lives are ruined by our need for a good story and quick justice. I don't think we'll ever know what truly happened in this instance. Were so quick to assume we know what constitutes sexual assualt to the alleged victim, and quick to convict the alleged perpetrator based on those assumptions.

I pose you this question:
If it had been an American Instructor and he had posted first, not the victim, and said something like, "I've been wrongfully accused of sexual assualt by one of my students and PADI has pulled my card", I'd say the sentiment on this board would be the other way around, because he posted first, and were so quick to believe the first thing we hear.

Personally, I admire her courage for wanting to share, I'm sure a painful ordeal for her, I see no personal gain by her actions posting here. On the other hand, I wish she wouldn't have, unless she was going to share her experience (anonomously), to give us a better understanding of what had happened, for education, prevention and safety. That being said, if you choose not to share your experience with us, but are just looking for support and understanding that's understandable and commendable, but I don't think it was appropriate to call the operator out by name, without sharing the experience.

Now I know nothing about PADI and how they run their company. However I think pulling his ticket in the midst of a sexual assault investigation is the right thing to do, I hope it would be the same for any instructor, being investigated for such a crime. But that does not necessarily mean because they pulled his ticket that he's guilty or they believe he's guilty. Their out to make money just like the rest of us, and do not want to be associated with this sort of publicity. What's one less instructor to them?

Who are we to judge without the facts, lend your support, offer encouragement by all means. But don't vilify and put away the nooses until you can make an informed opinion, is all I'm saying.

One last thing, I think it was irresponsible of ScubaBoard to allow the instructors name to remain on the thread without the facts available. The mods are quick to jump on anyone who has a different opinion of the victims allegation, but let the instructors name be publicized, once again without either side of the story. This is a persons life & lively hood that is at stake, if found guilty in his country I hope he pays a severe penalty. I would have been alright with the Company name, so weary travelers could avoid this company if they so choose. She did the right thing notifying everbody she did, including PADI.

I'm sorry this happened it's a sad situation, in either case.

 

[mrobinson]

Great point chickdiver. Earlier you mentioned you discuss up front with your students about getting within someone's personal body face to conduct a class. I appreciate that and will begin to use that within teaching too. Thank you.

 

[H2Andy]

One last thing, I think it was irresponsible of ScubaBoard to
allow the instructors name to remain on the thread without the facts available.

i'm confused. we did all we could to verify the story. we confirmed with PADI
that he was terminated as an instructor. we also confirmed the reason.

if PADI sees fit to post his name on ther website as an expelled instructor, which
they did, we felt comfortable releasing the same information.

so how is that irresponsible?

additionally, would you like this expelled instructor to possibly hurt someone
else who might learn better here?

i can tell you that *unless* we can confirm the story, we will not publish a name
willy nilly. in fact, that would probably be the case in 99% of these cases in
the future, since these things are by their nature very hard to confirm.

in this case, we had the information and we went with it. unlike some people,
who think ScubaBoard is a court of law, we're just an internet publisher, more
like a tv newscast or an editorial.

there's a big difference.

 

[JustDiveIt]

Good Point and an understandable one.!

 

[BigJetDriver]

I was the one who investigated the incident with PADI. I am an IDC Staff Instructor, and know at least some of the folks in PADI's Quality Assurance staff personally, as well as by reputation.

They investigated, and were satisfied that the incident did happen as specified. For that reason, they removed the instructor from PADI's active instructor roll, and completely banned him. This is the most extreme sanction that can be taken, and they must have complete justification and surety before taking such a step.

One more time.

 

[dsafanda]

There's a huge difference between "victim and assailant" and "accuser and accused". Unless one was directly involved with the events in question I don't see how anyone here can begin to guess as to what actually happened or what sort of recriminations would be appropriate. There's a rubber necking mentality at work here. People seem to like watching train wrecks. If ScubaBoard removed the original thread in an effort to check facts and/or minimize rampant speculation I applaud the effort.

 

[chickdiver]

Great point chickdiver. Earlier you mentioned you discuss up front with your students about getting within someone's personal body face to conduct a class. I appreciate that and will begin to use that within teaching too. Thank you.

I don't have a choice. I am a techinical diving instructor (cave and trimix). Because of the nature of the equipment I often have to get very "up close and personal" when teaching certain skills (moreso than with OW students). A perfect example is teaching emergency procedures for scootering. I have to teach my students to tow a diver as well as be towed by another diver. Towing a diver on a scooter involves placing one's hand under their crotch strap to hang on- as I said *very* up close and personal! I tell my students exactly what I expect from them, and I try to put them at ease about it- realizing that they are often very uncomfortable. I find that by letting them know what to expect, and trying to inject a little (appropriate) humor, as well as acknowledging the fact that I KNOW they are uncomfortable goes a long way to easing people's minds.