Sexual Assault: Discussion

[HammerNoMore]

ok guys, all of you who don't know the first thing about sexual assault, feel
free to show your ignorance here.

Ok this ignoramus will play:

Linda Fairstein, who directs the prosecution of sexual assault in New York, says that there are approximately 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen. Says Fairstein, “It’s my job to bring justice to the man who has been falsely accused by a woman who has a grudge against him, just as it’s my job to prosecute the real thing.”

In a recent Purdue University study of a small municipality, false rape allegations constitutes 41% of the total forcible rape cases. Research at college campuses produces similar results, with false rape allegations at approximately 50%.

Even if you believe the very slanted study that came up with a rate of 2% for false accusations, you have to admit it does happen. Why is it ok to question people who accuse dive operators of bad service, but not ok to question very serious allegations that run the very real risk of ruining a persons life?

 

[Hoya97]

As an instructor as well, I tend to agree with Chickdiver on this one. I tell students up front when I may have occasion to touch them and where the touch will be. If they indicate that it's okay, then we proceed. If not, then I go to some alternative plan. Don't know what the alternative plan is, because no one has objected.

In my opinion though, in a valid rescue situation, all bets are off. I will do anything in my power to save the life of a victim and in the process if something is grabbed, held or touched, such is life. If they want to state their objections after they've been rescued, they are more than welcome to. I will just be happy just to hear their voice, no matter how shrill it is.

But outside of a rescue situation, then any touching outside of 'normal' attention getting or what have you, is not appropriate - not in the least! If I saw a DM that was working for me touching a student or a guest in a manner that wasn't right, he (or she - let's be fair here) would have some serious explaining to do, followed by a sincere 'I'm sorry' to the individual and probably would not dive with me again. It's just not worth the bad reputation I would receive.

If this stance offends anyone, I'm sorry, but that's how I feel. Have I rescued women? Yes. Were things grabbed? Yes. Was anything said? Yes - heartfelt thanks and tears of gratitude. But I have never, nor will I tolorate anyone taking advantage of a situation on my watch.

Simply my 2 cents worth.

 

[MikeFerrara]

In a PADI OW class there is no removal of the scuba unit underwater in OW and there is certainly no forcefull equipment removal at 60 ft. If PADI knew nothing else this could be enough to get an instructor expelled.

Every one has to be careful these days but it's hard to teach without ever touching any one and some people don't wear much dress to scuba class. An instructor needs to be prefessional...even in an exagerated way. I always made it a point to never be alone with students, especially young students and/or females. Whenever possible I explain what I'm going to do, when and why. Then I do it in the most careful way possible. In the case of an emergency/accident you explain and apologize. If it's obvious to every one that you go out of your way to not touch, and you need to go out of your way these days, then it's easier to explain and there's less misunderstanding when you do.

The instructors copping cheap feels are living dangerously and they are out there. I had a DM that was that way and we addressed it quickly and sternly and one of my wifes instructors seemed very clumsy and bumped into all kinds of things when he was teaching ladies. I let my wife handle that one. LOL and I've had female students that I was afraid of and wouldn't be caught alone with them for any amount of money.

 

[pilot fish]

And why do you think you need to know this? It's irrelevant. It's also not for you to judge.

Isn't that what you are doing, Sue, judging? You are judging this man guilty on her word alone, without hearing both sides. I'm just trying to get informed on both sides, which I cannot do without both sides. Nor can you. You have chosen to make a judgment on the word of one person. I cannot do that.

Again, I think I've asked this a number of times, a woman diver is assaulted at 60 ft uw in a wetsuit and I'm at a total loss to see what could have happened, other than improper touching. If true, this man should be fired and jailed, if innocent, he needs his reputation cleared. Can we agree on that?

 

[dbg40]

This has gone completrly out of control, and emotion has sunk its teeth to the bone. There is the reason we have a legal system, to remove emotion and mob mentality from the equation. What hapened or did not happen will have to be decided in a court of law and not here. And it appears that there are only two that know the truth on this matter. I have not seen a single word of condolence for the act of assault, sexual or otherwise on this thread, only a desire to understand both sides of an incident. I don't believe that by asking this question one should be shouted down, berated, or very nearly accused of sociopathic behavior. I have not long been a member of this site but have quickly become impressed with the vast knowlege and good humor displayed here, and have been given well thought out and friendly answers to questions asked. It may be best to calm our anger on a subject that can have no reasonable end in this forum, and remain as friendly to one another as possible, many here seem to be known on a first name basis and it seems a shame to dismantle a relationship founded on a common passion, that of scuba diving. Perhaps a deep breath is in order, and well wishes for the one wronged, along with the hope that justice will prevail over criminal behavior.

 

[mrobinson]

Isn't that what you are doing, Sue, judging? You are judging this man guilty on her word alone, without hearing both sides.QUOTE]
There's a big difference between what Sue is saying and your point of view.
Without implying judgment to the attacker, we can FEEL for the victim who's pain is very real.

 

[H2Andy]

How about some personal responsibility for your own words after jumping to conclusions?

lol... dude, you want me to say that i don't believe what i believe?

i believe that the post in question came across as though the poster
believed women can't tell the difference between a grope and a rescue.

and i take full personal responsiblity for my words!

(this is like the fifth post i repeat the same words, so hopefully that should be
a clue that i am taking responsibility for them)

 

[BigJetDriver]

Isn't that what you are doing, Sue, judging? You are judging this man guilty on her word alone, without hearing both sides. I'm just trying to get informed on both sides, which I cannot do without both sides. Nor can you. You have chosen to make a judgment on the word of one person. I cannot do that.

Again, I think I've asked this a number of times, a woman diver is assaulted at 60 ft uw in a wetsuit and I'm at a total loss to see what could have happened, other than improper touching. If true, this man should be fired and jailed, if innocent, he needs his reputation cleared. Can we agree on that?

Pilot Fish,

I will say this only once. I was the one who investigated the incident with PADI. I am an IDC Staff Instructor, and know at least some of the folks in PADI's Quality Assurance staff personally, as well as by reputation.

They investigated, and were satisfied that the incident did happen as specified. For that reason, they removed the instructor from PADI's active instructor roll, and completely banned him. This is the most extreme sanction that can be taken, and they must have complete justification and surety before taking such a step.

As I say, I will only tell you this once: "Stop questioning this woman's veracity!"

IS THAT VERY CLEAR?

 

[H2Andy]

Why is it ok to question people who accuse dive operators
of bad service, but not ok to question very serious allegations that run the very real
risk of ruining a persons life?

well, that's why this thread was started, wasn't it?

 

[SueMermaid]

Pilotfish, I am not making ANY judgements. I was not there. I don't know the details.

The details of what happened are none of my business, and none of yours. You just don't get it.