SDI vs PADI standards

[Maggie]

Jon

I agree with you entirely but do you not also think that those people who have completed Rescue training should also have to update their skills on a regular basis (ie yearly or 2 yearly) along with medic first aid in order to keep their qualifications. It is only too easy to forget skills when you dont use them on a regular basis and also protocols change with time.

 

[turnerjd]

Maggie,

Above I suggested a 'TIR' (teach it right) agency being formed with far more time being spent on things like this. If I had my way, O2 therapy would be required knowledge for EVERY diver, and first aid certificates renewed every 2 years or so, and rescue skills reviewed, and re-assessed either yearly, or 2 yearly.

I have absolutely no desire to dive with some-one that last practised rescue skills on their rescue course 5, or worse, 10 years previously, and who hasn't done any first aid training since then.

Standards are too low at the moment, and too many divers aren't prepared to take any responsibility for themselves, and are too dependent upon someone like a divemaster. What do they do when the divemaster decides that the best place for him is surface supervision? do they then hope that another paying customer down there on the same dive site with them will rescue them?

Personally I would like to think that I had received enough training to deal with most occurences, but sadly, most of my rescue training wasn't performed by the 'main' training agencies around, as they have very little in any of their courses.

Jon T

 

[Maggie]

Jon

Okay, I agree with you. I should have said all divers and not just rescue divers. Even at rescue level the amount of first aid and rescue training you receive is poor. I am glad that some one agrees with me. I have to admit that I have been concerned about it but was not too sure whether because of my past experience I was being hypercritical. I have spent the past 30 years working as a Sister in Theatre, Intensive Care and in Accident and Emergency. I've also completed Advanced Cardiac and Advanced Trauma Resuscitation Courses. (I've now retired.) I'm glad to hear that you are going to do the IDC. With the amount of knowledge and enthusiasm you appear to have this can only be a big plus for the scuba world.

 

[turnerjd]

Originally posted by Maggie
I'm glad to hear that you are going to do the IDC. With the amount of knowledge and enthusiasm you appear to have this can only be a big plus for the scuba world.

Yes, and a big minus for my everyday job! (I'm sure I will spend FAR too much time on diving, as I know that I am already a bit too close to the limit!

Jon T

 

[DiverDave]

Jon,

I certainly agree with that O2 Admin should be a course all divers have to take. PADI Medic First Aid certificates are only valid for two years and then renewable via a refresher course. The same applies to the DAN Oxygen Provider course. Interestingly the Padi O2 Admin speciality has no expiry date. This certinly seems to be an oversight that should be corrected.

As for Rescue skills per se, some sort of regular practise is certainly a very good idea. I think that everyone should keep those skills sharp and it isn't difficult to do. After a fun dive, it costs nothing for one of a buddy pair to play dead and the other to practise all the skills of bringing the person to the surface and back to the boat with rescue breathing. Remember to tell the boat skipper/divemaster that you are going to do this as it can cause concern!!

If everyone practices it makes diving safer for us all.

 

[turnerjd]

Originally posted by DiverDave
PADI Medic First Aid certificates are only valid for two years and then renewable via a refresher course. The same applies to the DAN Oxygen Provider course. Interestingly the Padi O2 Admin speciality has no expiry date. This certinly seems to be an oversight that should be corrected.

Dave,

As a DM, I had to have a valid first aid certificate (IF I remember correctly) to register. Since I registered I have only had to pay PADI to remain current.

Personally, I think that this is wrong, and that to remain current I should be required to have a valid 1st aid certificate. Similarly, I think that Rescue divers should have some form of requirement to have a valid first aid certificate. As for not having to have a compulsory O2 admin course for DM or IDC people, this is not good enough. You can be a PADI instructor having only seen an O2 kit in your rescue diver course!

Jon T

 

[DiverDave]

Jon,

MFA or equivalent is mandatory for PADI Rescue Diver cert. MFA does lapse after two years, but you keep the rescue cert. DM and instructors must have in date MFA at time of passing, but I'm not sure that an instructor has to have an in date MFA for renewal.

Your comments on lack of O2 skills is spot on. I recommend to all rescue students that they take the O2 course in addition. There are some problems about O2 in some countries as it may be classified as a prescription drug. However this is not the case for most countries and there is no excuse for people not to learn the skills. The O2 course is not even a regular specialty but a "distinctive" one for PADI. This is a serious oversight as the course does not get the attention it deserves.

Dave

 

[SubMariner]

You're right about requirement of a "current" or "in status" MFA being required for DM, AI, & Instructor.

At the DM level it must be renewed every 2 years by re-taking the course. At the AI and above level, if the person has taught or assisted in teaching any MFA courses during that time, then they are still "in status". Otherwise they have to re-take the MFA course from a Course Director (who is an MFA Instructor Trainer) in order to retain their MFA Instructor status.

~SubMariner~

 

[scywin]

As one of those "undertrained vacation divers" being discussed here, I'd like to toss in my two cents. The chorus for requiring higher levels of training is hard to argue with. How do you argue against training and safety? However, if you actually succeeded in imposing some of the requirements discussed here, I am not sure whether I would be able to stick with the sport. Do you really want to reduce the number of divers like me?

I do think safety is important. I also happen to be a pilot, and if you want to see a well managed risk sport, check out flying. The key to safety in flying is not to impose absurdly high standards on everyone, but to get training appropriate to what you are doing and to use judgement appropriate to a "risk" activity. I have no problem scratching a flight or a dive if I don't think I can handle the conditions.

One thing that is commonly available to pilots is extensive data on accidents. Both accidents and fatalities have been declining for years due to a lot of emphasis in this area. While, I see stories about scuba accidents, I never see real data, e.g. numbers of accidents, whether accidents are going up or down over time, most common causes of accidents, etc.

Without data of this type, it is hard to make a case that existing training is good enough, not good enough, needs to be changed, etc.

Does anybody know of a source for such data?

Thanks.

 

[turnerjd]

Accident reports,

In the UK we have the HSE annual diving report, which covers diving at work (comercial divers, and recreational instructors), and the BSAC accident reports.

I will try and find some links for you. However as I am not an alerican I have no idea about US stats.

As for all this extra training we are mooting, there is nothing really hard or time consuming here, all that would be necessary (IMO) is after a dive once a year just showing that you had maintained your rescue skills, and possibly spending 1 weekend every 2 years doing a propper diving first aid course which included the O2 basics. Not exactly hard, or expensive.

Jon T