Scubapro X650/S600 MK25/MK17

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hamsiss

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Messages
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Location
Istanbul, Turkey
# of dives
25 - 49
Hi everyone :) ,
Can anyone please explain me the main difference between these two and offer one of them. Price is not a problem for me (50€ no matter for breathing).

And also difference between MK17 or MK25 I know balanced piston and diaphram but the Scubbapro dealer offered me to buy MK25 and he said; in a first stage problem a balanced diaphram first stage may stop giving air, but the balanced piston would just freeflow and of course prefer freeflow instead of being out of air! But I didn't hear that from anyone except that dealer :confused:
 
The balanced diaphragm first stage has an upstream poppet design (where the seat is upstream of the orifice) while the piston first stage has a downstream design where the seat is downstream of the orifice and theoretically the piston first stage may still deliver air in the event of a main spring failure.

But practically speaking, main spring failures never happen as the spring is carefully tailored to the situation and the spring operates well within it's normal working range.

And also practically speaking, the odds are very good that in the extremely unlikely event of a mainspring failure, the piston reg will also fail to deliver air.

What is factual is that the profit margin on the Mk 25 is better than the margin on the Mk 17 and the dealer will make more money off the sale of the Mk 25.

I used to use the Mk 25 on my doubles but switched to the Mk 17 when it came out about a year and a half ago. The Mk 17 offers great performance and it's 177 SCFM flow rate is more than adequate for even deep air and technical trimix diving. The cold water performance of the sealed Mk 17 is also head and shoulders better than that of the Mk 25, which is unreliable in water colder than about 40-45 degrees F, and the Mk 17's cold water resistance is in fact superior to other sealed cold water designs and has tolerated high flow rates for 200 minutes (the end of the test) at depth in extremely cold water without freezing up.

It is also relatively compact, lightweight, sealed and easy to rinse, features which makes it an excellent travel reg.

Having used both, I prefer the Mk 17, and would recommend it over the Mk 25 - and that is a shocker as I had been a confirmed piston reg fan for the 20 years prior to making the switch.

Your dealer can also order the Mk 17 with any second stage, it just takes a week to 10 days for SP to ship the combo to him. The Mk 17 S600 and Mk 17 G250HP are very good combinations. The Mk 17 S600 is about the same cost as the Mk 17 X650 and the Mk 17 G250HP would be a bit less expensive than either of those two.
 
Well... Well.... Well.

DA did it again.

It is time to close this thread... There will be no better answer on this matter.... :)
 
mattboy:
Someday someone's going to put together a "greatest hits" compilation of DA's posts on SP regs.

I have been doing it already...:wink:
 
Thanks a lot I'm really satisfied of your answer and now my first stage choice is MK17 ( its advantage is more than 100&#8364:wink: :))

But can you please explain the difference of S600 and X650 which is your choice and why?
 
hamsiss:
But can you please explain the difference of S600 and X650 which is your choice and why?
I lke them both about the same, they are just different from each other and it really becomes a matter of personal taste and styling.

The X650 uses a case that is similar in shape to the D400, but does not incorporate the D400's coaxial exhaust valve and diaphragm so it really misses any major advantage from the case design. The poppet and air barrel location does however allow air to pass straight into the mouthpiece and the flow is a bit smoother than the S600. The X650 has also proven to be reasonably reliable in cold water.

On the negative side, you end up having to de-tune the X650 a bit to prevent freeflows in a face down position (since it does not have a coaxial exhaust valve and diaphragm). It's reputation has also taken a hit with a recall due to a design flaw right after it was introduced and with a very small recall of one batch of X650's that were made with the wrong mix of plastic used in the case. The recall do not really reflect on the design as the design issue has been fixed and the mix problem could have occurred with any model, but there are some things people don't forget or forgive. I use an X650 on my full face mask where it does a superb job (my lightly tuned D400's resonate and are not well suited to FFM applications)

The S600 is a solid design, although it tends to be associated with freeze flows when used with the Mk 25 in very cold water where some divers have observed very slight freeflows with the S600 that add to the heat transfer load on the Mk 25. That however would not be an issue when paired with the MK 17.

The G250HP is the same as an S600 except it uses a full size case and diaphragm and does not have the same association with freeze flows as the S600 (perhaps the larger case provides marginally better heat transfer?) It is however significantly cheaper than the S600 despite the fact that they offer identical performance. People seem to value small second stages, despite the lack of any real advantage (jaw fatigue is more effectively addressed through appropriate hose lenght and a good mouthpiece design and the larger second stage offsets it's greater weight with greater displacement underwater since much of the extra volume is extra air space) and a disadvantage due to the lower mechanical force availabel due to a smaller diaphragm. Since people will pay more for them, SP charges more, even though the production cost is no greater than for the G250HP.

My preference of currently available second stages in order then would be:

G250HP
S600
X650

If you add out of production second stages as well, my preference would be in order:

D400 (There still a few new ones left as old stock as they were dc'd in 2003.
G250 (the older metal air barreled version)
Balanced Adjustable (the all metal cased precurser of the G250)
G250HP
S600
X650
 
DA,

We have talked with the new TIS 2 at the begining of this year. Do you have any chance to look at TIS 2 on MK25? Is there any real difference between TIS and TIS 2?
 
DA,
You are really "THE Aquamaster" :wink:
I think my choice will be S600, because G250HP is not available in European market and I would rather prefer products which are not out of production.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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