Scubapro S600 buying advice

[Age]

I have recently decided to upgrade my MK 11 S295 to a MK25 S600 (with the old S295 bungied round my neck) I nearly bought the new set up a few days ago when I noticed that the mouthpiece connection looked kind of messy compared to another S600 and a few other minor differences, and I realised that I was looking at a pre 2006 model.

They agreed and offered me 15% discount. I've looked at the Scubapro website and they talk about improvements to the S600. So the two questions are this:

1. Are the advertised improvements worth 15%?
2. Do regulators that have been hanging around in air conditioned shop for a couple of years or more need an overhaul?

Thanks in advance
Age

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The changes are not significant in my opinion.

I am however also not a real Mk 25 or S600 fan.

The Mk 25 offers incredible performance in terms of flow rate - but it is flow rate you will never ever use as it is about twice what you woudl ever need - even on air at 150-200 feet with you and your buddyy both hoovering all the air you coudl possibly breathe. (Deeper than that you would almost certainly be on trimix which flows even easier through regulators).

The Mk 17 is lighter, more compact and fully sealed with exceptional performance and relaibility in extremely cold water. And even with an extreemely well tuned high performace second stage you cannot tell the difference between a MK 17 and a Mk 25 in the water and at depth.

The G250V is in my opinon a far better choice than the S600. The larger diaphragm offers a bit more power to operate what are essentially the same internal parts and the metal air barrel of the G250V does a much better job of heat transfer (better cold water reliability) and prevents or at least reduces drymouth. The larger case and metal air barrel are slightly heavier, but the larger case also displaces more water, so in water you will not notice any difference. In short the smaller = less jaw fatigue argument is just marketing hype to increase the perceived value of a higher priced reg with less actual performance.

In short, I'd get a Mk 17 G250V long before I would get a Mk 25 S600. And since the Mk 25 S600 is billed as their top of the line reg package, whille the Mk 17 G250V is more middle of the pack (despite its better overall performance) price wise you'd probably stillsave money even with a 15% discount on the Mk 25 S600. (Your SP dealer can still discount the Mk 17 G250 10% under the dealer agreement and the markup for any reg from any company is in the 100% neighborhood so he has the margin to do that unless he is really struggling to stay in business.)

That said, yes, after a year or so sitting on the shelf the seat in the second stage has seen better days and the odds of it surviving an entire year in service while delivering peak performance are slim. The S600 is adjustable so any effects of an excessive seating groove can be adjusted out in terms of eliminating any slight freeflow, but that will come at the cost of some increase in inhalation effort. If you go that route, ask as a condition of the sale that the second stage at least have the seat or poppet replaced and that the reg be retuned for minimum inhalation effort. Poppets are not that expensive (cheaper than the whole annual service kit) and the replaceable seat has a dealer cost of only $1.00 so you are in effect asking for a $1 part to be replaced plus about 10 minutes of the techs time to replace it and tune the reg.

 

[Age]

Your reputation proceeds you, and you have certainly given me food for thought. I will look into your suggestions further. I really appreciate your knowledgeable post.

One thought springs to mind however; I'm informed that the MK 11 is essential the MK 17 without the dry chamber. If, I'm not planning to dive in temperatures less than 15ºC perhaps I should stay with the MK11 and just change the second stage. FYI My objectives for the upgrade are to have more control over my airflow, to be able to turn the venturi on and off and to improve my overall air consumption.

Age

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Yes, if cold water is not in the future, the Mk 11 is great - just add a new second stage with the features you want.

 

[Age]

Thanks to your advice I bought the G250V today. It came with the MK25 as a set as they were offering it at discount and I wouldn't have saved much by buying it as a separate item and to be honest, I was easily persuaded when I saw the elegance of the hose routing facilitated my the swivel turret when mounted on a tank. It ended up more expensive than the MK25/s600 set, which indicates that the Japanese have cottoned on the the fact it's a better reg. and for me the reduction of dry-mouth was a very big plus – I just hate that. It'll be in the pool this coming Sunday and next month for week long dive trip to Bahol, Philippines. I'm sure that the MK25/G250V will greatly increase my in water comfort and pleasure and...well, I hate to admit this, but I loved the retro design.

Thanks again
Age

 

[halocline]

Unless you'll be in frigid water, the MK25 will work great. After your pool dive, see if the dive shop will tune both 2nds to the new 1st stage. I would have them tune the G250V so that it's just a hair away from free flow with the adjuster all the way out. Then you could really piss 'em off by asking if they have a brass orifice to go with the "retro" design. (The original G250 had a brass orifice, the new one has, I assume, a plastic one.)

 

[Age]

Unless you'll be in frigid water, the MK25 will work great. After your pool dive, see if the dive shop will tune both 2nds to the new 1st stage. I would have them tune the G250V so that it's just a hair away from free flow with the adjuster all the way out. Then you could really piss 'em off by asking if they have a brass orifice to go with the "retro" design. (The original G250 had a brass orifice, the new one has, I assume, a plastic one.)

No brass, but quite a lot of metal Did the original have a hose protector to protect the second stage link? I might have to trash them when I connect them up to my new long fire hose? 24'' hose rig.

I will have to make sure that the S295 venturi is full on full blast anyway, as I can't do that myself with that model. So I shall ask the shop to tune the G250V as you suggest at the same time. Perhaps that way I can get close to using that 1000 litres a minute, or what ever it is that the MK25 can deliver

 

[squidster]

Your reputation proceeds you, and you have certainly given me food for thought. I will look into your suggestions further. I really appreciate your knowledgeable post.

One thought springs to mind however; I'm informed that the MK 11 is essential the MK 17 without the dry chamber. If, I'm not planning to dive in temperatures less than 15ºC perhaps I should stay with the MK11 and just change the second stage. FYI My objectives for the upgrade are to have more control over my airflow, to be able to turn the venturi on and off and to improve my overall air consumption.

Age

I have a MK11 /R395 and its a great reg,if you are not diving under the ice or in polluted waters i would just stick with it.
2007 Scuba diving magazine has a review of regs and the Mk 11/R395 had very high test scores,they also tested Mk11/S555 and there was not much difference.
The S555 is the same as the S600 except with the S600 you have the control knob for adjusting your rate of Breathing.
If that feature is important to you i would just get the MK17/250 Vintage.
If you try to buy second stage alone they are going to Break it off in you.
Plus you will have a nice back up reg in the MK11
One More Thing That MK11 most likely be a better cold water reg then the MK25

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Losing the rubber trim boot for the LP hose to inlet fitting connection is not a bad idea. When you cover the metal of that fitting with an insulating material like the rubber trim boot, it reduces heat transfer. The orgiinal G250 did not have one and I wish Sp would realize that they could not only save money but improve the regulator design by leaving it off.

 

[Age]

I have a MK11 /R395 and its a great reg,if you are not diving under the ice or in polluted waters i would just stick with it.
2007 Scuba diving magazine has a review of regs and the Mk 11/R395 had very high test scores,they also tested Mk11/S555 and there was not much difference.
The S555 is the same as the S600 except with the S600 you have the control knob for adjusting your rate of Breathing.
If that feature is important to you i would just get the MK17/250 Vintage.
If you try to buy second stage alone they are going to Break it off in you.
Plus you will have a nice back up reg in the MK11
One More Thing That MK11 most likely be a better cold water reg then the MK25

If I were an expert, I wouldn't have started this thread, but I don't think you are correct in suggesting that the MK11 would be a better 1st stage in cold water than the MK 25. At least, judging from the hype in the Scubapro manual.
However, I would agree that the MK11/S295 is a good a reliable system that has served me well for years and I was comfortable taking them down to 40 metres plus. The only problem I had was when trying to keep up with younger fitter divers swimming against a strong current and twice I was left gasping for air. It wasn't nice and a potential problem.
Also (please allow me some foolishness) the patina on plastic second stages is just horrible. But my new G250V? Can't wait to scratch it