Scubapro MK25

[tbone1004]

not stick, per se because it'll back off quite easily, but you can tell once they are in. They spin freely with your fingers, then stop. The torque wrench won't really register anything of value until it hits that stopping point just past finger tight. Every once in a while I'll go back over and check with a torque wrench and I have yet to be over on anything. It's always 5 ish lbs under, and the variability in the wrench could very well be that 5lbs.

He said it was alright on din, and to be avoided with Yoke. I do use them on yokes the once in a blue moon I actually see one.

 

[redacted]

not stick, per se because it'll back off quite easily, but you can tell once they are in. They spin freely with your fingers, then stop. The torque wrench won't really register anything of value until it hits that stopping point just past finger tight. Every once in a while I'll go back over and check with a torque wrench and I have yet to be over on anything. It's always 5 ish lbs under, and the variability in the wrench could very well be that 5lbs.

He said it was alright on din, and to be avoided with Yoke. I do use them on yokes the once in a blue moon I actually see one.

I am confused by this distinction in torquing the din retainer versus the yoke retainer. The design of the interface between the two retainers and the body of the Mk25 are identical for yoke and din. Different tool and different tank connection but exact same design where the torque is going.

The torque is somewhat critical on this connection because too much can damage the regulator and too little can result in the connection loosening if the body of the first stage is turned on the tank valve face while under pressure. Sure, just a bit of torque will seal OK - until the connection starts to loosen.

 

[Zung]

A loose connector under 3000 PSI of pressure right behind my head...

DIN or yoke, I don't like this idea one bit. I'll have the torque wrench anytime.

 

[Fish-R-Man]

If saxplayer1004 is an actually trained tech to service regulators and the type of work he is saying is standard, I would be very concerned about having my regulators or any other equipment serviced to these "standards". I have vendors do work on the boat that I chief and they not only have to meet the manufacturers standard, they also have to meet mine, which is it has to be done exactley right! No exceptions!

Reading through posts in the Forums here on Scuba Board there are numerous referals to blown o-rings, free flow, etc. Critical torque on any equipment is there for a reason. If service work is being performed that is below manufacturers spec, I can see why.....

 

[Wayward Son]

I'm not saying that you shouldn't, and in an ideal world we all would, it's just a lot of times I have been in spots where I don't have one. My big ass torque wrench is certainly not part of my save a dive kit, and the DIN adapter on my 1st stages spun out a few times this summer, mainly because I was screwing Yoke adapters on and off of them all the time. Finger tight worked well enough so I didn't have to call the dive, so that should say something about how tight they actually need to be to seal. I just don't know how you can overtighten these suckers with a normal short allen key. I'm a big, strong dude, and I get em on until you can clearly feel the metal stick, once it's there I'm done. You have to really start wrench the thing on after it sticks

and yet you claim a wrench to not be needed? I'm thinking that tightened any where close to spec & you wouldn't have had them spin out.

 

[tbone1004]

They were tightened. They got spun on the Yoke adapters which will make them come off. This was from repeated daily use of the yoke adapters. On and off about 6 ish times a day and happened after about day 40 some odd after tightening.

Have you ever tried to spin a DIN reg under pressure? It's not all that easy... Quite difficult in yoke or DIN, and certainly not enough to cause a reg to blow into the back of your head... All I'm saying with this is that if it says until metal touches metal, and it's within a fewlbs of a torque wrench, that's not going cause any catastrophic failure...

Torque settings for yoke clamp/din connector is 12 ftlbs for Apeks. Same as the turret retaining bolt and less than half of what the port plug and hose connections are. Hoses and plugs are 23-27 ft lbs. Diaphragm clamp/cap is 20 ft lbs. 12 ft lbs is hardly anything. As previously stated by others, it's to prevent over tightening which will cause the metal to fail because it has been warped. Under by a pound or two is not going to do anything.

Just redid this by hand and checked with torque wrench.
By hand, 11 ft lbs.
Wrench, 12lbs. Went an extra eighth of a turn.

The second stage specs are in the 40 lb range for their retaining nuts and hose swivel. Methinks the 12lbs is to keep gorillas from wrenching them

 

[Splitlip]

No dumb question at all....I've converted my MK25, MK10, & MK2Plus to DIN this year (Well, this is the first season for my MK25, since I just bought it in March). Conversion kits are easy, or your LDS can help you. I saved my yoke fittings, just to have them (now in my gear archives).

Safe diving to you.

Not dumb at all.

Not like the OP is an experienced diver.

oh wait. 1000 plus dives and perhaps trimix...

triminx145
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[redacted]

Have you ever tried to spin a DIN reg under pressure? It's not all that easy... Quite difficult in yoke or DIN,....

Torque settings for yoke clamp/din connector is 12 ftlbs for Apeks. Same as the turret retaining bolt and less than half of what the port plug and hose connections are. Hoses and plugs are 23-27 ft lbs. Diaphragm clamp/cap is 20 ft lbs.

Yes, spinning that Apeks design is a bit different that spinning a BP design reg which is what we were talking about.

I waited for a while figuring you might correct what must be a typo. Can you think of any other explanation for these specs you have "quoted"? Or do they seem correct to you?

 

[tbone1004]

I pulled em straight out of the manual I've got by Apeks. Missed the until it meets the body metal to metal on the retaining bolts... Not quoted there, but when we learned it was to spin the allen wrench with your pinky and when it stopped, stop. Check with torque wrench and you're good. After this thread I may just start using them on everything, but if you look through the other thread that was started, you'll find I'm not by any means the only one that doesn't use them and that more often then not the wrenches aren't accurate. Especially on yoke, or the diaphragm caps. Explain to me where I can by a pin spanner torque wrench, and I'll consider. I've yet to see one, so that spec is out. Same with the ones for hoses... That's a smidge ridiculous. I can see it for the retaining bolts, but if you're not overtightening, then it's not a problem. Do it enough and you learn what it feels like, and get pretty accurate.

I regret saying what I did, just because it's opened this can of worms, but I know I'm not the only one that does it like this, and it's one thing if you're paying someone to service your regs, but when I service our university regs *50 sets* twice a year, as well as my own personal regs, we don't use them, and have yet to have a problem. The university regs are used twice a day, 4 days a week, about 40 weeks a year.

 

[Fish-R-Man]

Not dumb at all.

Not like the OP is an experienced diver.

oh wait. 1000 plus dives and perhaps trimix...

triminx145
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This was actually a great question. It has brought out a lot of discussion on how regs should be properly overhauled.

I actually have three Apeks regs that I converted to Din from yoke. I swap one back and forth if I am traveling and find I can only get yoke bottles. Not a big deal. I just change one first stage to yoke and pack it with me.

Torque specs will vary depending on thread diameter, material and application. Most of the torque specs on regulators are for material types and proper crush on sealing material or surfaces. O-rings of a certain durometer will take a specific amount of pressure to seal. The same goes for gaskets and metal to metal seals. It is not just so they don't come lose. If you overtighten some applications with o-ring seals, you can damage the ring or extrude it out of its sealing area. I think that this is why tank o-rings fail.

To take short cuts on something that may cause a life threatening situation just doesn't make sense to me. I have to send my regs out for service. Not becuase I couldn't service them myself, but they do an utrasonic cleaning of all metal parts and the regs come back looking like new. Hopefully they are following ALL of the required steps on re-assembly.