Scuba Swap Meet Purchase

[jm]

Hi,

I went to a SCUBA swap meet three years back and purchased a US Divers Royal Aquamaster double hose regulator off a dive shop owner looking to get rid of it. He said that it worked. I took a quick look at the sintered filter and it was clean so I figured that he might be telling the truth. I snapped it on a tank on land and tried it. As I was able to inhale from it before turning on the tank valve I thought that it was not working and basically forgot about it.

I have been looking through this forum and did a bit more research on Vintage Scuba Supply and Vintage Double Hose. After learning a bit more about it I decided to try it again. This time I realized that I may be drawing air in via the exhaust hose so I disconnected it and capped it with my hand. I could not draw a breath ( I know I should have cleaned it first but curiosity won over common sense). I then put it on a tank and turned it on slowly. Well, no hiss of high pressure air was heard so I took few breaths with my hand capped over the exhaust hose and IT WORKED!

My questions are:

1) This appears to be a 70's vintage Royal Aquamaster ( chrome casing, big sticker that say Royal Aquamaster with the US Divers logo) and the can is held together with clips. I bought it for a very reasonable price so I guess they are not as collectible as the older US Divers double hose regulators but I am still curious as to what it is worth. It looks exactly like the regulator pictured under above the Voit 50 Fathom regulator here:

Vintage U.S.A. Two Hose Regulator Collection

2) I understand the one way valves in the breathing hoses but what is the duckbill for?

3) I also have an ABS backpack (or two) and a Seatec Horsecollar BC. Is it better to use the horsecollar and backpack or can I use a more modern BC to try it in a pool? After I get new one way valves and a new duckbill if required.

Thanks, JM

 

[herman]

What you have is a 70-72 model. It's ebay value varies but somewhere in the $150-200 range seems to be the going rate. There was a heavy yoke model (3000psi rated) that sells for a good bit more, those are kinda rare. There is the occasional one that goes for big bucks, none of us can figure out why, 2 nuts in a bidding war is all we can figure out. By the way, if yours does not have the heavy yoke, most of us use 3k tanks on the other yokes with no problem.

The duckbill is an exhaust valve that keeps water from entering the exhaust hose. If the hose fills with water it is much more difficult to exhale - it can be done, just makes it a lot more work. You can do away with the mouthpiece valves but the DB has to stay. The very early regs did not have the mouthpiece valves and were a later improvement.

Regardless of what the shop said I can about 100% guarantee is needs service badly. The 2 valves in the mouth piece and the duckbill are almost always in really bad shape. The good news is VDH has reproduction replacements that are better than the originals and are fairly inexpensive ($5 each if I remember correctly). If you intend to dive it and I encourage you to do so, they are a lot of fun, I suggest you send it to Bryan at VDH for a complete service. Internally, it is likely in good shape but you never know until you get inside of it but almost for certain it need mouthpiece valves, duckbill, a LP seat and the balance chamber cleaned, new oring and lubed.

Forget the modern BCs all together, they just do no play well with a DH reg . You can press them into service but you will not be happy with the way the reg performs and unless you add an adapter to the hookah port, there is not LP air for you to use anyway. The plastic BPs are better but the thick, blown ones are really too thick for DH regs and some do not let the tank be placed low enough. The objective is to keep the reg as close as possible to your back and low, between your shoulder blades. AL-80s will hit you in the back of your legs when the reg is in the correct position, if the tank doesn't feel way too low, it is too high. No need for a horse collar for simple dives, the reg dives best the way it was dove in the day, a BP and nothing else. Learning to dive that way will make you a better diver to boot. If you can find a local who currently dives the DH reg, getting them to mentor you would be a big help, the regs are not difficult to dive but do require a different technique to get the best out of them and there are querks to the DH reg you need to know. For example, if you go head up vertical a properly tuned reg WILL freeflow, not something you would expect.
Also, remember there is no way to monitor your air pressure, so J valves, tank valves with pressure ports or a banjo is a good idea if you intend to dive the reg outside of a pool.

And a warning, these things are addictive, one is never enough. Just ask Doc Ed.

 

[jm]

Thanks for the advice, Herman. I anticipate that it will need service. The parts are certainly reasonable enough not to be an impediment. I would not use it in an open water environment unless it had been serviced as I know only enough about vintage diving to make a nice statistic or footnote in an accident report. By the way, how do you tell if it is a heavy yoke model?

I was suprised that it worked at all given that I bought it from a dive shop at the swap meet for the grand sum of $40.

 

[herman]

If you want your money back I will gladly pay the shipping.

The easiest way is to look at the yoke screw, a normal RAM yoke screw is 3/8x16 and will have a tire looking knob. A heavy one is 7/16x20 ( if I remember correctly) and will have a modern USD/AL reg knob. The "normal" yoke is around 1/4 inch thick on the sides, a heavy one is closer to 1/2.
While on the subject of yokes, there are 2 versions of the lighter yoke, the long and short version. The long is the more desired one and most likely the one you have. The short one has distinctive angles about 2/3s the way up with the top legs of the yoke sloping in to the yoke screw. The long version has straight sides that gently curve inward near the top. Either will work with 3k tanks but the short version will not fit on a few modern valves. The biggest reason the long version is desirable is it will allow you to use a banjo with the reg which gives you a way to add a SPG- which is the reason the long version was offered.

 

[jm]

A near as I can tell it is long yoke but not heavy yoke.

It is interesting to hear your observations on the pricing of gear. People seem to overlook some aspects of this older gear when establishing value. For instance, I bought the Seatec horsecollar for $10 because if I wanted a cheap snorkelling vest the nearest that I could find at the LDS are about $40 or so. I picked up an older ABS backpack for $5 because if I ever wanted to clean a pool I would not need a BCD and it would be less cumbersome. I have more than my share of older SCUBA textbooks that are more in depth than most of the current texts but way cheaper. Notice that I can always find a reason to acquire a new toy!

I have lots of new shiny gear but I really appreciate well made, well thought out dive gear from the past.

 

[Sam Miller III]

JM,

If you are any where near SCUBA 2000 I would strongly urge you to make an appointment with the owner, Alex Pierce and have him examine the regulator and other vintage equipment.

SDM

 

[herman]

By all means, go see Alex if he is close by. He will be a great help.

 

[jm]

Yes, I may swing by and see Alex at Scuba 2000 when I get some time. I have been in his shop before ( arrived just in time to watch a Sea Hunt episode he has on film) but it is a bit distant from me. I am sure that his expertise will prove helpful as has yours, Herman and Sam Miller.

It is great to have experts available on Scubaboard who have used this type of equipment extensively in the past and are willing to help out us newbees, at least in tems of vintage gear. If it weren't for a Vintage Diving forum I might have not considered taking a second look at this regulator.

 

[herman]

You will find the vintage community is fairly small but unbelievabley close. A good many of us have traveled long distances to dive with each other. I saw Alex in Fla in May and again a few weeks ago in Ohio along with a good many others from this board and even more from VDH. I encourage you to join us if you can, you find the personalities while .....shall we say unique, they are none the less genuine and well worth the effort to meet and dive with. And FYI while some like Sam did dive it in the day, others like myself are relative newcomers. I got into vintage by accident a few years ago when some SOB offered me an old double hose for a good price and I thought what the heck. He has cost me a lot of money since then ...In just a few years I got deeply involved, learning all I can from the ones who were there and lived it. I try to pass on what I have learned and hope to see the old gear keep on going for who knows how long. It is the history of our sport and I hate to see it lost. Then there is the cool factor. How often do you have someone walking up to you and ask about your modern gear? Diving vintage it happens a lot.

 

[jm]

From what I see, the vintage community is less hung up on procedure and processes than general diving. The hard realities are dealt with such as physics, physiology and equipment limitations but other than that people are encouraged to just go for it. Mainstream diving is more concerned with BP and wings versus jackets, long hose primary versus Air 2, not to mention each PROPER way to accomplish anything. I haven't even covered the topic of WHAT AGENCY you are certified by as I guess in vintage diving many people started before certification was required (and are still around to tell the tale).

Perhaps it is the SPIRIT of diving (helpful, accepting, adventurous, laid back) that your group seems to embody that is as appealing as the equipment.