Training Scuba Ranch TX Diving Accident

[boulderjohn]

In this neck of the woods being an "instructor" is worth just about as much as the plastic card it's printed on. I've a harder time finding an instructor I'd willingly dive with than a non-instructor.

The question was whether or not the number of professionals working with the students met standards. I was simply pointing out that people assisting a class might be instructors rather than assistant instructors or divemasters, which changes the required ratios.

Your ludicrous assertion that the average non-instructor is a better diver than the average instructor is just an off-point absurdity.

 

[mcohen1021]

This guy? Calvin D Wilcher

oh. my. god....

 

[kammel78]

The question was whether or not the number of professionals working with the students met standards. I was simply pointing out that people assisting a class might be instructors rather than assistant instructors or divemasters, which changes the required ratios.

Your ludicrous assertion that the average non-instructor is a better diver than the average instructor is just an off-point absurdity.

No, I totally get your point about ratios. I'm just getting at the wide gap between ratio of professionals to the reality of standards of being able to attain the title of a professional.

I think you're taking my statement to broadly. I wasn't generalizing, and I did preface this with "in my neck of the woods" and using the first person about my experience. If you go to Marianna, the "average" instructor is a completely different class than the "average" instructor in Terrell, TX, so my point is merely acknowledging that in different pockets of the country/world what's "normal" regarding instructor standards, class standards, environment standards can vary wildly.

 

[auto]

I didn't even mention, I was diving rash guard and shorts, the thermoclines were literally 20+degress different on depth was not always the predictor. Saturdays are better for viz... Sundays are always worse. I go out there strictly for task loading, safety exercises, and gear confirmation...

 

[tweddleman]

Was out there, allegedly equipment was found on the bottom, so the police were also out there, along with Careflight. I actually did my open water there, and I made the comment to a few people that I never took another class out there. It is extremely challenging from a visibility and vertigo perspective for a new diver. I actually got into a shouting match with our Instructor due to a disagreement, of which the visibililty did not help. In fact, I was able not to do some of the crap they wanted, because they could not even see us. The next problem is the size of the groups that some of the shops run, it is impossible to keep track of everyone. Hell, me and the SO and we got separated this weekend, viz was even bad for Scuba Ranch.

Your mention of a shouting match reminded me of how frustrated I was with my instructor on our OW dives at the ranch. Apparently I wasn't breathing the direction he wanted (in vs out) and he would visibly agitate his hand signal for me to change. I'd try to change and he'd do it again. I felt like screaming at him underwater. Then when I stepped off of the platform in zero visibility and nothing but blackness below me I was supposed to stay still, and I couldn't stop moving my fins, as I was directed to do. I finally wrapped my arms around myself, crossed my legs and held on for dear life so he could see that I floated everywhich way (I felt like an astronaut tumbling in space). I was crying in my mask. When we got to the surface, he asked why I was so upset and I told him because I thought I was doing what he was signaling, only to watch him get mad. I couldn't get anything right. Not to mention the fact that the water was about 65 degrees on Mother's Day in 2018. It was gloomy, misting from being rainy throughout the weekend. It was miserable and I have no desire to ever dive in anything but Caribbean clear blue waters going forward.

 

[HiddenDiver]

Hopefully I do not rattle any feathers as I make this reply.

The day of, our group got out of the water around 10:30am where we were greeted by a frantic person driving around asking as many people for help in locating a 12 year old girl that went missing from the group while diving. Described with black wetsuit, black and blue fins, and the area she was diving. Last known with approx. 1050psi in her tank.
At this point, there were ambulances and sheriff vehicles already at the scene, so we didn't feel like we'd be much help. Add to that, the vis at Scuba Ranch that day was about 5 feet at best.
We hoped she may have gotten separated and surfaced with the wrong group.

It turns out, they found her underwater, unresponsive. Her mask was off and her reg was out of her mouth. Efforts to resuscitate her failed. It is unclear why her mask and her reg was off her face, and I don't think we will ever know. It may be that she panicked due to being separated from the group in zero vis or it may be that one of the other student may have kicked it off with their fins unknowingly and she couldn't recover. Either way, it ended badly.

I was able to clearly see the paramedics being emotionally messed up. Their eyes were red, filled with tears. She was too young for this to have happened.

I was also told that her father was at the dive site. It is not known if her dad is a diver or not, but he was not diving that day.

I understand that people in local diving facebook groups (which I won't name) won't talk about this issue out of respect for the family. However, they're promoting the Human Factor class. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but I feel that if they are going to promote the Human Factor class based off this incident, then I think it's also a good idea to talk about the "human factor" that may have prevented this incident to begin with.
Diving is not about diving and surfacing safely. Safe diving begins with knowing the conditions and the environment even before entering the water. If the water is too cold and you don't have proper exposure protection, should you be diving? If the waves are too big and rough, should you be diving? If there is hurricane warning, such as Hurricane Erin that is making its way in the Atlantic, should you be diving?
With vis at 5ft, should you be taking a full class with you? If we were to apply the "Human Factor" in this situation, the instructor and/or the dive masters should have called off the dive.

I also believe that we should be talking about the situation. I understand the family is heartbroken. But for the betterment of the community, we need to learn from this. This is a very real event that happened very recently. Additionally, more classes with new students will be entering the same water with same conditions this coming weekend. Staying quiet doesn't help anyone. What if we lose other new OW students this weekend? How many times have to lost in the past in similar conditions?

I also understand why all the shop owners don't want to talk about this event either (names withheld). To be frank, they sent their students into the same body of water for OW classes as well. And they need to send them back in this weekend to finish off their classes since that's part of their business model.
I get it. But if the conditions are this bad and you can't see beyond your own arm's reach, perhaps getting more DM's into the mix to lower student/instructor ratio may keep this sport safer? I hate to see this sport decline due to perceived danger. Scuba diving is a very forgiving sport if done right.

 

[alv0065]

Hopefully I do not rattle any feathers as I make this reply.

The day of, our group got out of the water around 10:30am where we were greeted by a frantic person driving around asking as many people for help in locating a 12 year old girl that went missing from the group while diving. Described with black wetsuit, black and blue fins, and the area she was diving. Last known with approx. 1050psi in her tank.
At this point, there were ambulances and sheriff vehicles already at the scene, so we didn't feel like we'd be much help. Add to that, the vis at Scuba Ranch that day was about 5 feet at best.
We hoped she may have gotten separated and surfaced with the wrong group.

It turns out, they found her underwater, unresponsive. Her mask was off and her reg was out of her mouth. Efforts to resuscitate her failed. It is unclear why her mask and her reg was off her face, and I don't think we will ever know. It may be that she panicked due to being separated from the group in zero vis or it may be that one of the other student may have kicked it off with their fins unknowingly and she couldn't recover. Either way, it ended badly.

I was able to clearly see the paramedics being emotionally messed up. Their eyes were red, filled with tears. She was too young for this to have happened.

I was also told that her father was at the dive site. It is not known if her dad is a diver or not, but he was not diving that day.

I understand that people in local diving facebook groups (which I won't name) won't talk about this issue out of respect for the family. However, they're promoting the Human Factor class. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but I feel that if they are going to promote the Human Factor class based off this incident, then I think it's also a good idea to talk about the "human factor" that may have prevented this incident to begin with.
Diving is not about diving and surfacing safely. Safe diving begins with knowing the conditions and the environment even before entering the water. If the water is too cold and you don't have proper exposure protection, should you be diving? If the waves are too big and rough, should you be diving? If there is hurricane warning, such as Hurricane Erin that is making its way in the Atlantic, should you be diving?
With vis at 5ft, should you be taking a full class with you? If we were to apply the "Human Factor" in this situation, the instructor and/or the dive masters should have called off the dive.

I also believe that we should be talking about the situation. I understand the family is heartbroken. But for the betterment of the community, we need to learn from this. This is a very real event that happened very recently. Additionally, more classes with new students will be entering the same water with same conditions this coming weekend. Staying quiet doesn't help anyone. What if we lose other new OW students this weekend? How many times have to lost in the past in similar conditions?

I also understand why all the shop owners don't want to talk about this event either (names withheld). To be frank, they sent their students into the same body of water for OW classes as well. And they need to send them back in this weekend to finish off their classes since that's part of their business model.
I get it. But if the conditions are this bad and you can't see beyond your own arm's reach, perhaps getting more DM's into the mix to lower student/instructor ratio may keep this sport safer? I hate to see this sport decline due to perceived danger. Scuba diving is a very forgiving sport if done right.

Thank you so much for expressing why the response to this situation is not sitting well for me. It just feels off. Almost my entire diving community is centered around shops that use this location every weekend so I've been a bit hesitant to really say much. And I I get that it was an absolutely horrific day for a lot of people. But the silence and people saying "Stop. Don't talk about it. Just stop." and "Take our class next month" feels a little... ehhhh... also not how it should be handled.

But hey, I am not a lawyer or PR professional so I guess my opinion is worth as much as this post.

 

[kammel78]

Hopefully I do not rattle any feathers as I make this reply.

The day of, our group got out of the water around 10:30am where we were greeted by a frantic person driving around asking as many people for help in locating a 12 year old girl that went missing from the group while diving. Described with black wetsuit, black and blue fins, and the area she was diving. Last known with approx. 1050psi in her tank.
At this point, there were ambulances and sheriff vehicles already at the scene, so we didn't feel like we'd be much help. Add to that, the vis at Scuba Ranch that day was about 5 feet at best.
We hoped she may have gotten separated and surfaced with the wrong group.

It turns out, they found her underwater, unresponsive. Her mask was off and her reg was out of her mouth. Efforts to resuscitate her failed. It is unclear why her mask and her reg was off her face, and I don't think we will ever know. It may be that she panicked due to being separated from the group in zero vis or it may be that one of the other student may have kicked it off with their fins unknowingly and she couldn't recover. Either way, it ended badly.

I was able to clearly see the paramedics being emotionally messed up. Their eyes were red, filled with tears. She was too young for this to have happened.

I was also told that her father was at the dive site. It is not known if her dad is a diver or not, but he was not diving that day.

I understand that people in local diving facebook groups (which I won't name) won't talk about this issue out of respect for the family. However, they're promoting the Human Factor class. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but I feel that if they are going to promote the Human Factor class based off this incident, then I think it's also a good idea to talk about the "human factor" that may have prevented this incident to begin with.
Diving is not about diving and surfacing safely. Safe diving begins with knowing the conditions and the environment even before entering the water. If the water is too cold and you don't have proper exposure protection, should you be diving? If the waves are too big and rough, should you be diving? If there is hurricane warning, such as Hurricane Erin that is making its way in the Atlantic, should you be diving?
With vis at 5ft, should you be taking a full class with you? If we were to apply the "Human Factor" in this situation, the instructor and/or the dive masters should have called off the dive.

I also believe that we should be talking about the situation. I understand the family is heartbroken. But for the betterment of the community, we need to learn from this. This is a very real event that happened very recently. Additionally, more classes with new students will be entering the same water with same conditions this coming weekend. Staying quiet doesn't help anyone. What if we lose other new OW students this weekend? How many times have to lost in the past in similar conditions?

I also understand why all the shop owners don't want to talk about this event either (names withheld). To be frank, they sent their students into the same body of water for OW classes as well. And they need to send them back in this weekend to finish off their classes since that's part of their business model.
I get it. But if the conditions are this bad and you can't see beyond your own arm's reach, perhaps getting more DM's into the mix to lower student/instructor ratio may keep this sport safer? I hate to see this sport decline due to perceived danger. Scuba diving is a very forgiving sport if done right.

Thanks for sharing. I've had some interactions with that shop and was not expecting to hear it was them.

Either scenario is entirely plausible as I've seen both happen. I personally know of instructors who clip short dog leads to their BCs so their students can hold on and stay close when doing their experience dives (those that actually take students on experience dives). Lots of us have been saying it for a while...it's a continuous race to the bottom in the current recreational dive training industry. Whether it's shortening OW class, making up for lost revenue with a pay-for-a-card instructor mill, overfilling classes, or pushing the limits of a given dive sites. And it. just. keeps. getting. worse. The end result can only ever be increased risk (this, Mills, etc) or just a sub-par, sh***y experience like just a handful of people in this small thread have already attested to. But at the end of the day is a business model based on acceptable risk vs profit. If you took SR and Athens away as approved OW sites, how much revenue in training dollars would be lost to dives shops and the training agencies?

@cerich not sure if you caught this one or not. Would also be interested to get Gareth's take. Granted we don't know the direct cause or any material details, but we know a helluva lot about the environment and risks.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Thank you so much for expressing why the response to this situation is not sitting well for me.

So you're saying there's a difference between saying "This is what happened ... This is what we think went wrong ... This is how to avoid that in the future ..." and saying "Don't talk about it. Keep it hush-hush. Maybe folks will just forget about it and we can all just go about our business ...*"

Feels to me like an attempted CYA maneuver.

I get the lake and the dive shop having a "no comment at this time" reaction, but the whole "Nobody - whoever you are - talk about it*" line to be self-serving and disingenuous. It paints the persons and operations putting that out in a bad light.


*inferred and paraphrased from some of the posts - not a quote

 

[tursiops]

deleted