Scuba Extremists

[boulderjohn]

We hear a lot about "extremists" in the news these days. In terms of religion or politics, these are people whose beliefs are so, well, so extreme that they feel compelled to kill people because of their beliefs. In both religion and politics we have other extremists who are not killing people but whose adamant refusal to compromise on any minute detail of their belief leads to other less lethal problems. But other activities have extremists, too, and I believe scuba is one of them. To illustrate the sort of thing I am talking about, let me give an example from a completely different activity: craft beer brewing.

I used to be a pretty serious home brewer. I made a variety of beer styles starting from scratch with sacks of barley seeds and whole hops. I studied recipes and experimented to find the ones that worked best. I won blind taste tests against well-regarded microbrews. I subscribed to a home brewing discussion group much like ScubaBoard, and I participated as actively in those discussions as I do here. Here is a quick summary of one of them:

The primary enemy of the home brewer is bacterial infection, which can make an entire batch undrinkable. To combat that, various sanitizing compounds are used on all equipment. One popular agent was advertized as a no-rinse santizer--rinse your equipment in it, dry it out, and go to work. The discussion was about how dry it had to be, and both the owner of the company and his key product designer participated, saying that their tests showed that drying was not really necessary at all. They had even introduced some of it directly into finished beer, and no one was able to detect it. Well, one poster would have none of that nonsense. By golly, he said, it had to be completely dry to avoid unpleasant tastes in the beer. In fact, after sanitizing, he left the equipment in a drying rack for three days to make sure it was satisfactorily dry. Two days of drying was just not good enough. (We are mostly talking about glass containers.) As you might guess, people said he was nuts, but he could not be dissuaded. Maybe you can't tell the difference, he insisted, but he could. (I could have picked about a dozen such stories for this example.)

Whether it is politics, religion, home brewing, scuba, or whatever, when an extremist presents a viewpoint, he or she can often get away with it because the mainstream participants are afraid to challenge for a number of reasons.

• I don't know. He seems to know what he's talking about. He seems so sure of himself. I don't know nearly as much. I'm a relative beginner. Maybe he's right.
• Well, that seems a bit extreme for me, but I believe the same stuff mostly. We are in the same group. If he's wrong on this, then, maybe I have to question my belief in everything else.
• If I disagree, he's just going to slam me in his next post. I can't compete.
• Wow! He is a true believer! He is a hero of the cause! I am not worthy!

I have been dealing with scuba extremists lately, and it is beginning to bug me. I won't call them out here. I just wonder if it is possible for an extremist to look objectively at his or her own beliefs. I wonder if others can recognize when an extremist has gone too far.

 

[Steve_C]

I just wonder if it is possible for an extremist to look objectively at his or her own beliefs.

By definition no.

I wonder if others can recognize when an extremist has gone too far.

Yes, but they are likely to often not say anything since it will do no good. No point in arguing with a drunk.

 

[kimbalabala]

I go through periods when I'm willing to post here and others when I'm not. I know that no matter what I say there will be someone who will nit-pick at what I've said. And I'm sorry to say that I have fallen into that group myself at times here. I think there's a certain amount of competitiveness that invites an unattractive hubris. Now when I get on the forums I try to stay as neutral or in the 'novice' role as much as possible. It's safer.

 

[tomfcrist]

There will always be people that can't think far enough outside of the box to accept input from a source that doesn't fall in line with their own beliefs. Certain things are legitimately black and white...most things in scuba, religion, cooking etc are extremely grey.

 

[Colliam7]

I just wonder if it is possible for an extremist to look objectively at his or her own beliefs.

I agree with Steve - by definition, the answer is 'NO' ('no, a thousand times no' )

I wonder if others can recognize when an extremist has gone too far.

As much as I might find the general notion despicable, I will paraphrase Bill Clinton: It depends, on what you mean by 'gone too far'. I think I can generally recognize when someone is simply irrationally / obstinately / absurdly wedded to a particular notion which has no basis in fact or logic. I also think I can recognize when such people are offensive / confrontational / uncivil in their communications. I don't see 'gone too far' as simply voicing a ridiculous opinion. I don't even see 'gone too far' as being abrupt and condescending in doing so. They have a right to voice their opinion. I have a right to dismiss it.

But, there are many (of us) who simply have strong opinions. I admit that there are some specific subjects, to which i have given considerable thought, and on which I therefore have well-developed opinions that sometimes cause me to aggressively dismiss other views as, oh, let's just say, fatuous nonsense. I like to think that I know what I am talking about. Or, put another way, I generally try to avoid talking if I don't know. Sometimes, I err, and say something stupid, however. For me, the key is to offer my opinion, explain why I hold it, and answer questions if posed (from which I not infrequently learn a lot). I see the extremist as someone who is, across the board, unwilling to consider any point of view other than their own.

As Steve said, no use arguing with a drunk. Put another way, it is pointless to try to teach a pig to sing. It can't be done, and merely annoys the pig.

 

[redacted]

I AM A SCUBA EXTREMEST.

I dislike the scuba business model and distrust small local dive shops. I would like to see them all replaced by efficient retailers and not for profit clubs.

I would also like to be able to purchase OEM parts for the scuba gear I own.

 

[AfterDark]

Is non violent extremism a bad thing? Is it always bad? The example of the brewer and his 3 day drying process is extremism but who or what is hurt?

Is obsessive compulsive behavior a polite phrase for extremism? From my prospective there is a whole discipline of diving that I consider extreme in their insistence on being uniform. They consider themselves as safe as divers can be and everyone else should be diving exactly like them or they are doing it wrong and will die because of it. The fact that there are divers that dived safely many years before their discipline was even a glint in the founders eye makes no difference to them, extremist. Are they bad? Are they wrong? Of course not, just extreme in their belief that their way is the only way. Their extremism is based on making diving as safe as it can be.

Extremists can try one patients at times but, unless they are willing to hurt those who don't follow I see no harm.

 

[Ana]

It helps when one's intentions are not to change the other person's mind. On your example of the guy drying the glass 3 days... good enough let him dry the thing for as long as he needs to, you consider the situation test your glass with different drying time and chose whatever you chose. Good enough.

For me those are easy situations, my problem would only come in place when suddenly I now have to dry the glass container for3 blessed days when I know well enough is not needed. Those are the extremist I have a problem with.

Let me use a different subject, is not in the internet but describes the human mind of certain segment of people that sometimes happens to fall in the extremist category where the "live and let live" concept is non existent. Highway driving on the left lane doing exactly the speed limit while the next lane to the right is empty, just typing it makes my blood pressure climb.

I dive my way, we can exchange posts about the reasons behind my ways but I would never assume you are going to do what I do, just because I said it works for me. who ever does it, is not a person I'd consider reasonable thinking being, just a sheep. I'm not a herder so I have no use for that type of people.

 

[Nemrod]

I am a SCUBA Extremist. I like to and often prefer to dive solo, I do not buy into the you are gonna die mentality if something is done differently, I prefer to think for myself and I do not like being force fed or coddled. And what AWAP said.

I think anyone who does not agree with GUE and DIR and donate the long hose and BP/wing on scubaboard as being the only way to dive safely and kiss certain derrières is quickly labeled an extremist. I think the extreme position is the norm on scubaboard.

And it is perfectly acceptable to have extreme positions and debate them but if in the end we are supposed to all reach some consensus and hold hands as we swim into the sunset singing campfire songs, not gonna happen. If this is the expectation then I am afraid that is a set up for disappointment.

It is possible to disagree and still respect the other position or person and we all fail at that sometimes, both here and in life.

James

 

[Seya]

I try not to be an extremist sorry if I come off that way.

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