OP
jetblast00
Contributor
So, because new divers don't want to do any work, the industry should devise programs that cater to them??? how about, if you don't do the work, you don't get a c-card...
Scuba classes on the Internet??
- Thread starter jetblast00
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So, because new divers don't want to do any work, the industry should devise programs that cater to them??? how about, if you don't do the work, you don't get a c-card...
MNScuba
Guest
Yeah, once again... that would be the ideal situation and I couldn't agree with you more. Fact is, anyone and everyone can and is getting certified. What difference does it make if you're lazy online or in a classroom?
Only good thing about either one is that you can't virtually do the dives....YET.
YES, there are good courses out there... and it's not necessarily the course that is the problem.
Also, I've learned more from this board than anywhere else, including the classroom... So to imply that you can't learn online is just plain wrong. I can see a site geared towards teaching scuba online being a tremendous asset to the diving community, but only if it's done right...
However I can see where, in some instances, it may be the least bad option. The same applies to training on almost any subject not just scuba.
My reasoning for this opinion is the amount of information that can be exchanged. A good example is this board itself. While I have learned a lot from the posts of many knowledgeable divers, I would have learned much more if it were practical to sit down and talk with them. The body language missing from an on line setting is important. How do you send a quizzical look or the light bulb just came on look across the Internet?
For me reading the statement in on line curriculum, that this can be dangerous, even if its in two inch high, bright red, flashing characters, does not have the same impact as an instructor that Ive grown to respect, looking me in the eyes and telling me that this can be dangerous.
A big factor that Ive seen both as an instructor (not SCUBA related) and as a student is the, Im scared to ask too many questions and look dumb phenomenon. One of the biggest challenges of being a good instructor is understanding this and helping the students become comfortable enough to overcome it. In a group instruction environment everyone in the group typically benefits from questions asked by any student. And the instructor, through the body language of the students, can tell if he got the point across.
Also, in the classroom mode student/instructor relationships are established before you get to the pool.
My reasoning for this opinion is the amount of information that can be exchanged. A good example is this board itself. While I have learned a lot from the posts of many knowledgeable divers, I would have learned much more if it were practical to sit down and talk with them. The body language missing from an on line setting is important. How do you send a quizzical look or the light bulb just came on look across the Internet?
For me reading the statement in on line curriculum, that this can be dangerous, even if its in two inch high, bright red, flashing characters, does not have the same impact as an instructor that Ive grown to respect, looking me in the eyes and telling me that this can be dangerous.
A big factor that Ive seen both as an instructor (not SCUBA related) and as a student is the, Im scared to ask too many questions and look dumb phenomenon. One of the biggest challenges of being a good instructor is understanding this and helping the students become comfortable enough to overcome it. In a group instruction environment everyone in the group typically benefits from questions asked by any student. And the instructor, through the body language of the students, can tell if he got the point across.
Also, in the classroom mode student/instructor relationships are established before you get to the pool.
OP
jetblast00
Contributor
Murdock,
Yea, I agree with you, it isn't necessarily the course that is the problem, if those kind of students are passing (which, yes, they are...) it's the instructor... but, an agency shouldn't make it easier for an instructor to pass those types of students...
Yes, you can never have the ideal world where every student knows everything in the book and has every skill down pat... but, an agency/shop should lean towards that direction rather than away from it IMO.
Yea, I agree with you, it isn't necessarily the course that is the problem, if those kind of students are passing (which, yes, they are...) it's the instructor... but, an agency shouldn't make it easier for an instructor to pass those types of students...
Yes, you can never have the ideal world where every student knows everything in the book and has every skill down pat... but, an agency/shop should lean towards that direction rather than away from it IMO.
MNScuba
Guest
Perhaps the real issue here is that fact that the textbook part of the course is often overlooked as being the basis of scuba education. I get the feeling it's looked at as just something that has to be done as a technicality so we can get to the fun part and be in the water. I for one feel that the classroom portion is rushed way too much and a lot more time needs to be spent there.
Until that is recognized, people are going to continue to drift through scuba courses like there's no tomorrow. I fear the end result of this system whether in person or online, I really do.
Until that is recognized, people are going to continue to drift through scuba courses like there's no tomorrow. I fear the end result of this system whether in person or online, I really do.
What about the courses after basic OW? I know the new NAUI AOW book is LAME! (I'm not bashing NAUI; I'm working on my instructor cert. through them) Since AOW is mostly diving and the divers should already have a grasp of the basics could the lecture part be done online? How about something like Divemaster? You still have to do the work in the water but do you think doing the classroom on the internet would be a bad idea for that?
BTW, I too prefer the classroom version for the same reason most have cited, the ability to read body language. You can see so many questions on students' faces, coax them out and get them answered.
Just my .02!
Ber
BTW, I too prefer the classroom version for the same reason most have cited, the ability to read body language. You can see so many questions on students' faces, coax them out and get them answered.
Just my .02!
Ber
MNScuba
Guest
I also feel the classroom IS better, but online instruction DOES have it's place and if done correctly, can be almost as effective.
You're probably right about the advanced courses being even more applicable cases for online instruction...
As far as asking questions goes... I'd be much more willing and thorough about asking questions online than in person. I'm kind of shy around people I don't know, hence have a 'fear' of asking the 'dumb question'.
You're probably right about the advanced courses being even more applicable cases for online instruction...
As far as asking questions goes... I'd be much more willing and thorough about asking questions online than in person. I'm kind of shy around people I don't know, hence have a 'fear' of asking the 'dumb question'.
So what do you do when the instructor sees that question on your face, looks right at you and says "What's your question?" The people I've taught (in life as well as scuba) have all gone ahead and asked their question, gotten praised for it (ex. "John brings up a very good point here") and then had the question answered.
I see your point about feeling more freedom to ask questions in an "anonymous" setting such as the internet, I'm actually quite shy myself. A good instructor will make sure the students know that there are no stupid questions.
Ber
I see your point about feeling more freedom to ask questions in an "anonymous" setting such as the internet, I'm actually quite shy myself. A good instructor will make sure the students know that there are no stupid questions.
Ber
I think that if they are done properly, online instruction could be a good idea as a preparatory class. It would allow students to study at their own pace and get more information if they needed it.
I don't think it would be good as a replacement for classroom study, but it could be an adjunct to it.
Much the same is true of CD-ROMS. They can be interactive and illustrate several principles much better than a book can. I can imagine Boyle's, Charles and Dalton's Laws, decompression, embolisms, and other things animated on a CD-ROM
I haven't seen the diving instruction CD-ROMS so I can't comment on their quality. I do know that when CD-ROMS in general started getting popular, there were a lot of crap ones that were basically books transferred to the digital media without taking advantage of all it could do. I would hope the diving instruction CD-ROMS haven't made that mistake.
The same is true of online instruction. It would be a shame to have web pages that were hardly different than paper pages when the technologies could facilitate instruction and understanding.
Diving classes could be more like some high school and college courses wher eyou are expected to do reading at home and the material is reviewed in class, going beyond the basic information you are expected to read on your own and helping students understand how it applies to them.
I don't think it would be good as a replacement for classroom study, but it could be an adjunct to it.
Much the same is true of CD-ROMS. They can be interactive and illustrate several principles much better than a book can. I can imagine Boyle's, Charles and Dalton's Laws, decompression, embolisms, and other things animated on a CD-ROM
I haven't seen the diving instruction CD-ROMS so I can't comment on their quality. I do know that when CD-ROMS in general started getting popular, there were a lot of crap ones that were basically books transferred to the digital media without taking advantage of all it could do. I would hope the diving instruction CD-ROMS haven't made that mistake.
The same is true of online instruction. It would be a shame to have web pages that were hardly different than paper pages when the technologies could facilitate instruction and understanding.
Diving classes could be more like some high school and college courses wher eyou are expected to do reading at home and the material is reviewed in class, going beyond the basic information you are expected to read on your own and helping students understand how it applies to them.
Hi Murdock,
I also feel that questions are easier to ask on the internet, no one can see me blush when I ask the obvious and perhaps stupid question. I also sometimes find contradictory methods of instruction when going through manuals. So asking questions on the net gets them put into perspective.
I also feel that questions are easier to ask on the internet, no one can see me blush when I ask the obvious and perhaps stupid question. I also sometimes find contradictory methods of instruction when going through manuals. So asking questions on the net gets them put into perspective.
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