scooter bolt snaps

[DA Aquamaster]

Its popular with the cave divers diving the big harley scooters, e.g. 26Ah & standard Gavins. The fixed towcord (in my limited experience with them) allows for a more relaxed grip on the handle and a more consistent straight line pull. I suspect (but not sure about this) that its also preferred due to the unbalanced drag of multiple bottles.

I asked over on GUE forums just for giggles.

This is pretty much it in a nutshell. One adjusted properly, a fixed bolt snap on the tow cord basically leaves you in cruise control mode with regard to depth or directional changes (depending on whether your cord is set up vertically or horizontally.)

The downside is that when maneuvering, the tow strap cannot slide inside the bolt snap so when making large corrections, you are having to place/remove tension from one side of the cord or the other and that takes a lot more effort.

So it really depends what you want to do with the scooter. Mile long cruises in OW or in large passages argue for a fixed bolt snap and shorter trips where you will manuever more argue for a free sliding bolt snap.

The improved scooterbatic potential of an X-scooter over a Gavin would make free sliding bolt snap a good idea on the X-scooter and vice versa.

Personally, I like the freesliding bolt snap both for maneuverability and for the capability of easily changing the lenght of the cord without having to manually reposition the bolt snap.

 

[LiteHedded]

Its popular with the cave divers diving the big harley scooters, e.g. 26Ah & standard Gavins. The fixed towcord (in my limited experience with them) allows for a more relaxed grip on the handle and a more consistent straight line pull. I suspect (but not sure about this) that its also preferred due to the unbalanced drag of multiple bottles.

I asked over on GUE forums just for giggles.

in the context of this thread let's assume I'm talkin about big harley scooters. standards and larger

 

[rjack321]

in the context of this thread let's assume I'm talkin about big harley scooters. standards and larger

What's your diving + scooter like?

I have a Sierra X now and have never fixed the snap onto the cord. I didn't fix the snap on my short Gavin or my Mako when I owned those either.

I've used larger Gavins with and without a fixed snap. 90% of the straight line stability of these seems to be coming from the mass/inertia of the bigger scooter, maybe 10% from fixing the snap. I'm not diving with a huge bouquet of bottles on my hip though, maybe 2 stages on the leash at the very most.

Its not hard to try tying the snap, but at least for me I think it would take many more scooter dives before I'm nuanced enough to really tell. I think I have about 200 scooter dives right now, maybe 250.

 

[LiteHedded]

multiple bottle cave dives with standards and magnums.
I'm fairly new on the scooter. all my dives so far have been with a free sliding snap.
so is the idea that the scooter is more stable with the fixed clip? is it more comfortable to ride that way? im open to new things
it sounds like once you've got the length of cord dialed in it might be wise to fix the clip where you like it.

 

[LiteHedded]

This is pretty much it in a nutshell. One adjusted properly, a fixed bolt snap on the tow cord basically leaves you in cruise control mode with regard to depth or directional changes (depending on whether your cord is set up vertically or horizontally.)

The downside is that when maneuvering, the tow strap cannot slide inside the bolt snap so when making large corrections, you are having to place/remove tension from one side of the cord or the other and that takes a lot more effort.

So it really depends what you want to do with the scooter. Mile long cruises in OW or in large passages argue for a fixed bolt snap and shorter trips where you will manuever more argue for a free sliding bolt snap.

The improved scooterbatic potential of an X-scooter over a Gavin would make free sliding bolt snap a good idea on the X-scooter and vice versa.

Personally, I like the freesliding bolt snap both for maneuverability and for the capability of easily changing the lenght of the cord without having to manually reposition the bolt snap.

didn't see this one. this is helpful.
i think fixed might have more pros than cons for the type of diving I'm doing/aspiring to do

 

[rjack321]

multiple bottle cave dives with standards and magnums.
I'm fairly new on the scooter. all my dives so far have been with a free sliding snap.
so is the idea that the scooter is more stable with the fixed clip? is it more comfortable to ride that way? im open to new things
it sounds like once you've got the length of cord dialed in it might be wise to fix the clip where you like it.

I am not sure how you "setup" the tow cord when you hit the trigger on you scooter. With my scooters, since I am diving in the ocean doing free ascents with them etc I have them balanced slightly positive and slightly nose up. This makes it easy to clip off and float in a way that's easier to deal with for me. Being nose up a smidge and positive means that I have to "push the nose over" to get them in trim when I hit the trigger to actually go. All of this (not to mention being a Sierra X) means a fixed snap is less than useful for me.

In a BIG cave, with a level balanced & neutral scooter I would probably fix the snap. Going from a free running snap and a manuverable X to a standard Gavin with a fixed snap was a big change. It was actually more comfortable and easier to just hit the trigger with everything all setup and ready in the correct V for the cord, although I don't have hundreds of scooter dives in each configuration to compare. At a price of being slightly less nimble than I am used to, although some of that was being 2x more massive too. I will blame the new scraps on JB's ceiling on all that. :blinking:

 

[LiteHedded]

I'm gonna try and fix the snap on the next dive and just see for myself the difference.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Once, I set up a scooter and ran the cord through the eye of the bolt. Then, I ran it through again.

It had the effect of "locking" the snap, while allowing it to slide some small amount. Made driving the scooter very difficult.

Recently, I had the chance to run a SS N-18 (UV18 body, NiMH cells) for approximately 2 miles. This scooter used a free sliding boltsnap. I was using sidemount configuration with a stage. I had no problem steering all over the place quickly and my arm was still not sore after 2 miles.

Tying the boltsnap on with cave line introduces a secondary failure point and is thus, a poor system. If you wish to fix the boltsnap, the method of tying several loops and using a double ender seems superior in terms of reducing failure points.

 

[rjack321]

Tying the boltsnap on with cave line introduces a secondary failure point and is thus, a poor system. If you wish to fix the boltsnap, the method of tying several loops and using a double ender seems superior in terms of reducing failure points.

Too funny, you do realize that the reason this topic came up is because JJ & Casey routinely use fixed snaps tied on with cave line? There are alot of failure points on a scooter, but the actual towcord seems pretty low on the list. Besides, if you are really reliant on a scooter you need complete spare scooters, not just a less failure prone knot.

 

[ucfdiver]

Once, I set up a scooter and ran the cord through the eye of the bolt. Then, I ran it through again.

It had the effect of "locking" the snap, while allowing it to slide some small amount. Made driving the scooter very difficult.

Recently, I had the chance to run a SS N-18 (UV18 body, NiMH cells) for approximately 2 miles. This scooter used a free sliding boltsnap. I was using sidemount configuration with a stage. I had no problem steering all over the place quickly and my arm was still not sore after 2 miles.

Tying the boltsnap on with cave line introduces a secondary failure point and is thus, a poor system. If you wish to fix the boltsnap, the method of tying several loops and using a double ender seems superior in terms of reducing failure points.

Remember, if it breaks, you can rerun it through the bolt snap in seconds and continue the dive.

Looking at how Casey does it, it would take 4-5 cave line failures to get to that point however.
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