School violence

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Scubaguy62:
....
Is it impossible to monitor the activities of 2,600 students outside the classroom?
....
....
I'm aware that all we can do to guarantee her immediate protection is to trust in the values we've taught, and continue to teach her, but what's the long term anwer?
....
....
This is her freshman year and last year, among 78 total cases of battery, fights, and threats, there was 1 instance of sexual assault at that school,
....
....
if something of that sort happens to any of them, I may just have to plead temporary insanity.
....
I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.
There is no short term fix, and I don't know any of the answers, but as a recovering secondary school math and science teacher I can point you to a couple of the problems; you've written them into your question.
We, as a society must become temporarily sane, then work toward a longer term sanity.

It is false economy to build secondary schools so big!
For many reasons, but first for this thread, the violence: the students are anonymous and have no real connection with one another (as a whole) in the student body of "Enormous High" or Huge Junior High". Factions become big and increasingly violent. Turf building, posturing, yes and drug sales and protection, even prostitution are in schools. (I first saw prostitution in a middle school on Oahu in the early 70's)
The bigger the school, the greater the market and the greater the fight for turf supply, and market share.
We've always had bullies, even small gangs of them, but the violence builds when you have competing gangs, the gangs are bigger, and in at least one of the schools where I taught, the gangs are family driven (not 'mafia' family) southwestern hispanic intercity, parents, big brothers, generations old gangs.
The family gangs weren't about markets in the school in Phoenix; they were building soldiers, through fighting for turf and position, for the next level. That school was my last, I couldn't take being part of the problem any more, it was a K-8 school, the few that graduated that school graduated to a worse school, where I knew folks who were attempting to survive, and in some cases, these heros got some teaching in! The heros and others stay.
I skulked away, a coward in the night.

Gangs carry vendetta and turf from the streets to schools seamlessly.

This is only as I perceived that world through my experience and my eyes and through the eyes of other teachers including my ex-wife whom I met while I was in the military and she was teaching in Hawaii.
I watched as good teachers retired early, caring teachers threw up their arms, as people survived only for retirement.
Most people I knew in the profession began by loving children and teaching, ended on a spectrum between merely hanging on or completely in denial. Many of us were too gutless to hang on that long.
And I skulked away...
As you teach your daughter well, so do some other parents, but not in the same direction. I saw parents covering for their children in schools who should not have been free on the streets, and others, desperate, trying to keep their kids alive and get them educated in a system they couldn't afford to get out of yet forced by law to inflict on their children.

Smaller schools will not get rid of the violence, that has seemingly always been a part of our society, and the permission to graduate from fists and knives to anything available may not go away either, but smaller schools will make the problem more manageable. Without community constabulary and security patrols roaming the halls of blockhouse prison-like structures in some communities, that are called 'educational' institutions.

And in the next session class, we'll discuss leadership training and how many class officers there are at "Huge High" versus how many there are at "Neighborhood Home High." Compare size and interaction of parents and community, dispairity in funding between schools in the same district, and other issues to keep you awake at night, sometimes for years or even decades after you helplessly, furtively sidle away from the fray.
Following discussions will be opportunities for children to be a part of their school's varsity team and theater groups and other organizations; and to achieve honest recognition for actual accomplishment at each of these schools.
Citizen building groups will be considered after day three of the seminar.

Arguments against small schools include lack of facilities; magnet schools are tried and true after more than twenty years -but they too are too HUGE, modification will create facilities for every need. Even if we stay with a current model of schooling that has students entering a campus in the morning and leaving it at the end of the school day.
The schooling model I moved through is not hard and fast either, so precedence exists for creating a better model of secondary education, some students are already allowed part of their education through community colleges and other instruction centers, including workforce experience.

The answers exist, we have to ask the questions, expend the resources, especially our own energy in oversight.
I'm back to my favorite song, the one about responsibility for our own actions, the actions TO our children, our actions for our children, and the actions of our children; Our actions for our future.

Tom
 
Scubaguy62:
TDP...my buddy!!! How you've been?????

Actually, the IB stands for International Baccalaureate Program. I guess I am guilty of mixing and matching :D

Thanks for straightening me out :) It seemed too obvious an error to be one, but I had to ask for my own education. :eyebrow:

:Looking for water, need to get in the water :wink:
DP
 
you should teach your children that violence and wars are not a solution, even if it's the other persons fault. if you teach them to fight, fine, but there will be casualties.
 
Nomaster:
There is no short term fix, and I don't know any of the answers....

Without community constabulary and security patrols roaming the halls of blockhouse prison-like structures in some communities, that are called 'educational' institutions.

The answers exist, we have to ask the questions, expend the resources, especially our own energy in oversight.

I'm back to my favorite song, the one about responsibility for our own actions, the actions TO our children, our actions for our children, and the actions of our children; Our actions for our future.

Tom


Tom,

You say you don't have any answers, but you have done a good job of listing them!!

As a police officer who is an advisor to the chief of a school district police department, I am one of those "community constabulary" guys. I would have to point out that our schools, while not without problems, are better off than the ones you have worked in, even though they are quite large! The reason that they are is exactly as you say.

In those areas where parents take responsibility for their childrens' actions, and get actively involved, problems are reduced, and violence is more easily controlled.

You are very right! There is no short-term fix. Much like the war on terror, we have to dig in for the long term and get involved! :doctor:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fahrenheit 9/11--(Despicable Trash!)-- :rofl:
 
Scubaguy62:
Scbababe and I had our first parental "close encounter" with school violence yesterday. A boy at our daughter's high school stabbed another boy five times with an 8 inch phillips screwdriver, over a cell phone. The victim suffered a punctured lung and massive blood loss, and it's currently in critical condition. This being our first experience of this kind, was quite disconcerting, although our daughter appears not to have been affected much by it. Of course we would hate for something like this to happen again, let alone to her, but what's the correct way to do it, metal detectors? Prohibit the kids from carrying cell phones? Ways of fostering better interracial interactions? Complaining to school and elected officials, or lobying, for better security? Is it impossible to monitor the activities of 2,600 students outside the classroom? We have parents who don't respect the right turn only sign during student drop off time, or who drop kids off on the street and leave them to cross in dangerous areas, so frankly, I'm not sure.

I'm aware that all we can do to guarantee her immediate protection is to trust in the values we've taught, and continue to teach her, but what's the long term anwer? This is her freshman year and last year, among 78 total cases of battery, fights, and threats, there was 1 instance of sexual assault at that school, which is a great concern to me because our daughter, although humble, pure, and very ladylike, is quite a beautiful princess. I just hope I won't ever have to forego my promise to my daughters and to scbababe of never seeing a prison cell from the inside, but if something of that sort happens to any of them, I may just have to plead temporary insanity.

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.


Hi there, I hope all is well with you, Scubababe and your daughter. Your post really made an impression. I also have a daughter; she'll be 9 years old next week. The thought of violence and our kids is scary. Apart from changing schools, you seem to be doing the only thing we can do as parents---show them the correct values; there is a right and wrong---and the rest is out of our hands. One reason I chose to work abroad is so that my kids would be out of that sort of situation. However, living in Saudi soon presented its own difficulties. Raytheon ordered its dependents out due to the terrorist situation here. Now they are with their mother in her country (Sri Lanka), and my daughter is worried about what may happen to me here. A bit of a role reversal. I guess my point is that no matter where one is, there is no line drawn, with one side marked "safe" and the other side "unsafe." Just keep showing your daughter the proper values, and that's all we can do. If you think about it, we need for our children to face these issues. Combined with your core life values, kids will be better able to deal with such problems if they do occur. And, of course, work with your daughter's school to make sure they deal with it too. Even "isolated" incidents need to be taken care of, less they become non-isolated ones. Best wishes and I'm glad she's o.k.
 
I am a single parent that has thought about this and this is what I have done. First I have taught my children to be responsible for your own actions and never blame anyone else for what you did. You may not have very many choices but I have tought them to look for them and not make violence the first one. Next have your children take a self defense curse, one that not only teaches them how to defend them selves but how to recognize when things are going bad so they can get them selves to a safe place or when that is not an option they can defend them selves. You also could move but violence is every where. Teach them is the best thing you can do for them. Just my .02.
 
Jeddah Aquanaut:
Hi there, I hope all is well with you, Scubababe and your daughter. Your post really made an impression. I also have a daughter; she'll be 9 years old next week. The thought of violence and our kids is scary. Apart from changing schools, you seem to be doing the only thing we can do as parents---show them the correct values; there is a right and wrong---and the rest is out of our hands. One reason I chose to work abroad is so that my kids would be out of that sort of situation. However, living in Saudi soon presented its own difficulties. Raytheon ordered its dependents out due to the terrorist situation here. Now they are with their mother in her country (Sri Lanka), and my daughter is worried about what may happen to me here. A bit of a role reversal. I guess my point is that no matter where one is, there is no line drawn, with one side marked "safe" and the other side "unsafe." Just keep showing your daughter the proper values, and that's all we can do. If you think about it, we need for our children to face these issues. Combined with your core life values, kids will be better able to deal with such problems if they do occur. And, of course, work with your daughter's school to make sure they deal with it too. Even "isolated" incidents need to be taken care of, less they become non-isolated ones. Best wishes and I'm glad she's o.k.

Amen, sir! Amen!
 
bwerb:
Two words...home schooling.

Not only will they not have to worry about assault over cellphones, they will also more than likely way, way outperform their peers academically. There are phenomenal home school resources available and no...they don't become socially inept, more often then not, they actually end-up significantly more well adjusted and self confident.

Took the words right out of my mouth! To quote a post on www.mommies2mommies.com that my wife showed me weeks back:

"If anything, the real parenting problem comes with how to prevent "brainwashing" from the societal norms which is most commonly instilled in the school systems. For those able to do so, homeschooling can bypass much of the nonsense while promoting serious educational growth in the child. The concern that homeschooling will deny the child gaining "socialization skill" is false. Not going to school means not learning how to deal with children as peers. Preparation for adult life requires skills dealing with adults as peers (or less), not children. "

I especially enjoy the part about "not learning to deal with children as peers" bit as that IS what I felt I was interacting with while working for my former employer - children.. people still stuck in a high school mentality.
 
mwrager:
I am a single parent who has thought about this a lot, and this is what I have done. First, I have taught my children to be responsible for their own actions and never blame anyone else for what they do. You may not have very many choices, but I have taught them to look for solutions and not make violence the first choice. Next, have your children take a self defense course, one that not only teaches them how to defend themselves, but how to recognize when things are going bad so they can get themselves to a safe place or, when that is not an option, they can defend themselves. You also could move, but, unfortunately, violence is everywhere. Teaching them is the best thing you can do for them. Just my .02.

Very well said, sir! very well said! :luxhello:

BJD


----------------------------------------------------------------

Fahrenheit 9/11--(Despicable Trash!)-- :rofl:
 
Tom, I enjoyed your post, and as BigJetDriver said, you certainly offered lots of answers when you felt there were none.

Scbababe and I are fortunate that our oldest is a young woman with a lot of common sense. We've been working with her to develop an even greater sense of responsibility, especially since she announced her desire to get her OW. I know that quite often we set the bar quite higher than she’d like, as we demand her to have almost as high sense of responsibility as we do as adults, especially concerning school, but we feel that it isn’t improper to have her think with the mind of a responsible adult of today. That way, when tomorrow comes around she won’t find herself playing catch up, but being ahead of her peers. We're confident that when the chips are down, she will rise to meet any challenge. We also have a 15 month old little girl to worry about, but looking at it from a positive stand point, at least we won’t have to worry about two daughters having these problems at the same time!!!
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom