Safety stops

[pete340]

the reason why you felt bad doing it the industry standard way is that you were bubbling too much when you go out.

If you're going to present made-up facts rather than true facts there's no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[pete340]

It doesn't have to be all that complicated. IIRC, the Pyle method of deep stops is to stop at 1/2 the distance between your starting point and your 1st deco stop (or the 15' safety stop). Once you've finished that first deep stop, then you split the difference again. Then perhaps split it again, but only if the difference is more than 15 or 20'.

That's all very nice, but what is the benefit of the added complexity?

 

[jbd]

If you're going to present made-up facts rather than true facts there's no point in continuing this discussion.

What makes you think that the information is made up?

 

[lairdb]

If you're going to present made-up facts rather than true facts there's no point in continuing this discussion.

Errr, I believe his comments are based on, oh, pretty much every hyperbaric medical expert's published findings in the last 20 years, which are themselves based on both large group epidemeology and specific in vivo studies. Why are you having such vehement trouble with this?


I've appended below some references you might wish to consider:

Marroni A, Bennett PB, Cronje FJ, Balestra C, Cali-Corleo R, Germonpre P, Pieri M, Bonucelli C. Use of a deep (15 m) and shallow (6 m) stop following 25 meter no-decompression dives. Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine Abstracts 2004

Vann RD. Inert Gas Exchange and Bubbles. In: Bove AA. Bove and Davis’ Diving Medicine , 5th ed. WB Saunders: Philadelphia, PA, 2003: 53-76.

Marroni A, Bennett PB, Cronje F, Balestra C, Cali Corleo R, Germonpre P, Pieri M, Bonucelli C. The effect of deep stops on precordial doppler bubble production after recreational diving. In: Proceedings 29th Annual Meeting of the European Underwater and Biomedical Society: 2003

Dunford RG, Wachholz C, Huggins K, Bennett PB. Relationship of deepest dive or deepest quarter of dive to doppler scores. Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine 1994; 21 (suppl): 88-89.

Dunford R, Wachholz C, Huggins K, Vann R, Gerth WA, Bennett P. DCS risk and doppler bubble in sport divers. Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine 1993; 20(suppl)

Dunford RG, Wachholz C, Huggins K, Bennett PB. Doppler analysis of sport diver profiles: a second look. Undersea Biomedical Research 1992; 19: 70.

Dunford RG, Wachholz C, Fabus S, Huggins K, Mitchell P, Bennett PB. Doppler analysis of unselected sport diver profiles. Undersea Biomedical Research 1991; 18: 62.

Wachholz CJ, Dunford R, Bennett PB. Ultrasonic doppler measurement of sport divers at altitude. Undersea Biomedical Research 1991; 18: 23-24.

Fife CE, Zhang J, Vann RD, Currie MS, Moon RE, Piantadosi CA. Decompression stress after repetitive deep air dives: use of doppler monitoring and complement activ. Undersea Biomedical Research 1990; 17 (suppl): 157.

Fife CE, Vann RD, Mebane GY, Dunford RD. . Doppler surveillance of open-water multi-day repetitive diving. Undersea Biomedical Research 1990; 17(suppl): 220.

Fife CE, Vann RD, Mebane GY, Dunford RD. Doppler surveillance of open-water multi-day repetitive diving. Undersea Biomedical Research 1990; 17 (suppl): 220.

 

[jbd]

That's all very nice, but what is the benefit of the added complexity?

Reduced bubble production by letting the N2 (in dissolved form) out at a greater pressure.

Are you familiar with Pyle stops and where they came from?

 

[Soggy]

I realize what I presented was a straight line from 70' up...I also understand that we are talking about 'minimum deco' or NDL dives where, at least in theory, the deco is built into the ascent rate. Were I to do a very aggressive dive right to the edge of the NDLs, I'd probably go for 2 mins at 30', 3 mins at 20', and depending on conditions, 3 mins at 10' or so. In practice, I usually take 3-4 minutes going from 20' to the surface.

However, like someone up above said, we aren't talking about typical decompression dives...I know I come out feeling better than I did when I was just doing a 3-5 minute safety stop at 15 feet and I'm able to do repetitive dives without much concern for risidual nitrogen buildup....I just double the shallow stops on the repetitive dive.

 

[pete340]

Errr, I believe his comments are based on, oh, pretty much every hyperbaric medical expert's published findings in the last 20 years, which are themselves based on both large group epidemeology and specific in vivo studies. Why are you having such vehement trouble with this?

Perhaps you overlooked the words that I quoted in my reply:

the reason why you felt bad doing it the industry standard way is that you were bubbling too much when you go out.

I haven't felt bad doing it the industry standard way. The suggestion that I said otherwise misrepresents the state of this discussion. In fact I haven't seen anyone in this thread complain about feeling bad after doing dives within the no-decompression lmits and using the industry standard approach. Why are so many folks having such vehement trouble with this?

 

[pete340]

What makes you think that the information is made up?

Please cite a message in which I said that I felt bad doing it the industry standard way. That's the statement that I replied to.

 

[pete340]

Reduced bubble production by letting the N2 (in dissolved form) out at a greater pressure.

Are you familiar with Pyle stops and where they came from?

Okay, you caught me asking too broad a question, although I thought the context made it clear. So let me restate it: what is the observable benefit to the recreational diver staying strictly within no-decompression limits of these more complex approaches? Sure, you can get more nitrogen out more easily. Does that result in a reduced incidence of DCS in practice?

 

[jbd]

Please cite a message in which I said that I felt bad doing it the industry standard way. That's the statement that I replied to.

I wasn't wondering about you felt bad after doing it the industry standard way. I was wondering what made you think that the comment made by lamont was made up information?