Rescue diver, theory vs practice
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Well, I think from my experiences in practicing unconscious diver rescues in classes, that it takes some to determine that the diver is truly unresponsive, and to position oneself for rescue, and to get the diver off the bottom. During that time, you have a pretty good idea whether any respiratory efforts are being made at all. (You do have to consider a fairly long period of time, because what we call "agonal" respirations -- the last efforts of a failing nervous system -- have a very low frequency.) If you have gone through the minute or so involved and have seen NO respiratory efforts, it is my personal opinion (and this goes against what is taught in classes, be so advised) that the effort to hold a regulator in someone's mouth is really irrelevant.
Respiration is wired into the brainstem -- it's a very primitive and basic response. If somebody is not making respiratory efforts, the central nervous system has shut way down. (In fact, an apnea test used to be a criterion for brain death, before we had brain scans.) Somebody in that condition needs to be gotten to the surface and to somewhere where CPR and effective ventilation can be performed. Although one should not risk significant personal injury in the process, it needs to be expeditious and anything which delays getting the person out of the water should be carefully considered for its benefit.
I would also add that retrieving an unconscious diver is a skill. Rescue classes teach it, and those of us who have been taught ought to practice it from time to time. And remember that you may not be able to use the power inflator on the victim, if he's out of gas! Oral inflation is another skill most of us don't practice very often, too.
Respiration is wired into the brainstem -- it's a very primitive and basic response. If somebody is not making respiratory efforts, the central nervous system has shut way down. (In fact, an apnea test used to be a criterion for brain death, before we had brain scans.) Somebody in that condition needs to be gotten to the surface and to somewhere where CPR and effective ventilation can be performed. Although one should not risk significant personal injury in the process, it needs to be expeditious and anything which delays getting the person out of the water should be carefully considered for its benefit.
I would also add that retrieving an unconscious diver is a skill. Rescue classes teach it, and those of us who have been taught ought to practice it from time to time. And remember that you may not be able to use the power inflator on the victim, if he's out of gas! Oral inflation is another skill most of us don't practice very often, too.
Surfacing an unconscious diver is not an easy skill.
Isn't it valuable to try to hold the head/neck in such a position that the airway is open during the ascent? It's not easy.
Isn't it valuable to try to hold the head/neck in such a position that the airway is open during the ascent? It's not easy.
A very good thread and I think we should all thank the OP for sharing this with such detail.
I would like to make a suggestion and share an idea that has been used in other places and I think can help.
LDS can organize a "Rescue Day" on off season, coordinating with the local emergency services and centers and involving divers of different certification level who live nearby or use the LDS frequently as clients.
I recommend talking to the local newspaper and/or radio station and getting them involved in the "Rescue Day" as well.
You then set up a number of different scenarios that get picked out of a hat at random by a group of "umpires' made up of say the LDS owner, the Chief of EMS of the zone and maybe the local police or sherriff. None of the umpires can take any part in the activities, give advice or discuss any of the issues involved with the participants. They only watch and take notes, times and so on.
The "victims" have all been thoroughly briefed the week before and should know exactly where to go, how to behave and so on on each incident.
Optionally the victims can wear a slate with "the problem" on it to make sure that the rescuers follow the correct procedure for that incident.
Different people involved with the Dive Center should take turns at varying roles between rescuing, coordinating EMS, searching themselves, supervising search patterns and so on.
A whole load of different scenarios can be played out and that gives the divers, the LDS, the EMS, the police and so a chance to see what works, what doesn't what could have been done and so on.
It sounds expensive for public safety services but really everybody (especially EMS, Police, Istrufctors, DMs and Rescue Divers) wants a chance to train and correctly done it should be worthwhile and enjoyable for all.
Press coverage should benefit all involved. The "Rescue Day" can be instituted on a yearly basis.
I would like to make a suggestion and share an idea that has been used in other places and I think can help.
LDS can organize a "Rescue Day" on off season, coordinating with the local emergency services and centers and involving divers of different certification level who live nearby or use the LDS frequently as clients.
I recommend talking to the local newspaper and/or radio station and getting them involved in the "Rescue Day" as well.
You then set up a number of different scenarios that get picked out of a hat at random by a group of "umpires' made up of say the LDS owner, the Chief of EMS of the zone and maybe the local police or sherriff. None of the umpires can take any part in the activities, give advice or discuss any of the issues involved with the participants. They only watch and take notes, times and so on.
The "victims" have all been thoroughly briefed the week before and should know exactly where to go, how to behave and so on on each incident.
Optionally the victims can wear a slate with "the problem" on it to make sure that the rescuers follow the correct procedure for that incident.
Different people involved with the Dive Center should take turns at varying roles between rescuing, coordinating EMS, searching themselves, supervising search patterns and so on.
A whole load of different scenarios can be played out and that gives the divers, the LDS, the EMS, the police and so a chance to see what works, what doesn't what could have been done and so on.
It sounds expensive for public safety services but really everybody (especially EMS, Police, Istrufctors, DMs and Rescue Divers) wants a chance to train and correctly done it should be worthwhile and enjoyable for all.
Press coverage should benefit all involved. The "Rescue Day" can be instituted on a yearly basis.
Very good thread.
As far as theory and reality, it is often said that the first casulty in any battle is the plan. This is why military and rescue organizations are constantly training. This way when the ship hits the sand things become instinctive.
As far as surfacing an unresponsive diver, I believe it is important to stress the importance of using the victems BC for bouyancy. First if they become too bouyant the rescuer can let them go and meet them on the surface and avoid injury, second here in the Keys we had a double dive death because the would be rescuer inflated their own BC for lift, then lost their grip on a heavy victem, causing the rescuer to become a Polaris missile.
The bottom line is to take a second or two to assess the situation and to think it through before you take any action.
Safe Dives
trtldvr
www.divealive.org
As far as theory and reality, it is often said that the first casulty in any battle is the plan. This is why military and rescue organizations are constantly training. This way when the ship hits the sand things become instinctive.
As far as surfacing an unresponsive diver, I believe it is important to stress the importance of using the victems BC for bouyancy. First if they become too bouyant the rescuer can let them go and meet them on the surface and avoid injury, second here in the Keys we had a double dive death because the would be rescuer inflated their own BC for lift, then lost their grip on a heavy victem, causing the rescuer to become a Polaris missile.
The bottom line is to take a second or two to assess the situation and to think it through before you take any action.
Safe Dives
trtldvr
www.divealive.org
Glad everything worked out for you and hope the patient comes out just fine. This post makes me remember some of my first experiences with real life rescues. I've done the scuba rescue class but all of my experience comes from a former career as a paramedic in Edmonton, AB.
I remember quite vividly my first few real emergency calls I participated in where gruesome injuries were involved. As well as I was prepared for what I would have to do medically to deal with the injuries I was quite unprepared for what the injuries would look and smell like. However, your training will get you through.
Such as in this case, as well as you were caught off guard by a few things you got the main job done. This build valuable experience and if for whatever reason you are ever in a similar incident again, this experience will make you all the more prepared and confident to go through it again.
I remember quite vividly my first few real emergency calls I participated in where gruesome injuries were involved. As well as I was prepared for what I would have to do medically to deal with the injuries I was quite unprepared for what the injuries would look and smell like. However, your training will get you through.
Such as in this case, as well as you were caught off guard by a few things you got the main job done. This build valuable experience and if for whatever reason you are ever in a similar incident again, this experience will make you all the more prepared and confident to go through it again.
Missdirected
Contributor
fftopic: Pleasure to see you on the board again R. I think some can practice and believe that they would be okay in an emergency situation but often they aren't and instead stand with others in shock. Now granted I'm only thinking of accidents I've seen, robberies, and other things non scuba related. That said, I think people, if there is a leader of sorts about, can be made to become animated again and start assisting and following direction.
shark_tamer
Contributor
As I stated, I am a newly certified Rescue Diver and everything is still fairly fresh in my memory. I've been diving for only 2 years now and the worst cases I have encountered were OOA divers !!!
Here are the points I noticed :
- Our group decides to send two divers to see what is happening. Upon reaching Diver #1 they have a very short conversation with her and then yell to alert the EMS. They immediately descend after that
Two divers in full gear were sent out .... How fast did they get there compare to sending 2 snorkelers to evaluate the situation. You did not know then which diver was in distress !!!
The 2 divers immediatly descend ..... Leaving those 2 divers at the surface by themselves !!!
- After another 10-15 minutes, the two divers still on the bottom decide to split up and continue searching at different depths because one of the pair started with a tank that was not full and is getting low on air.
The 2 divers decided to SPLIT UP and continue searching !!!! Isn't this asking for trouble ?
However, I'm now more convinced than ever that sending snorkelers into the water is the SECOND priority in most cases and *certainly* in cases where the diver on the surface is clearly not the diver who needs help
First priority was to get to the 2 divers at the surface to rescue them. Diver #1 was clearly signaling he/she was in distress and Diver #2 DID need assistance ( the passive panic diver that everybody missdiagnosed ) I think 2 skorkelers should have been sent in, and assist in getting those 2 divers back to shore.
However, once the victim was out of the water this snorkeler left with the paramedics
If I understand correctly, the one person in charge left the accident area ?
When the last diver (in this case me) surfaced, the entire dive area was deserted and only my OW students where standing on shore wondering where I was.
I hope you were not one of the 2 divers that split up !!! If something would have happened to you, you would probably still be down there !!!
Many diver dive solo...If they usually do why not now?
For those of you who have learned from the thorough presentation of the original incident, I would highly recommend doing a search on threads started by Diver0001. When I found SB, 3 years ago, he was a frequent contributor, and his posts and threads were always of value.
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