Rescue Diver? Can someone explain this category

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SEI teaches actual in water rescue skills in the Open Water class like NAUI does.

Normally this is interpreted to mean performing a CBL (controlled buoyant lift) of an dead/unconscious diver.

PADI does (indeed) not teach this at the OW level. In the PADI system learning this skill is delayed until the Rescue course.

One could argue that the OW course is where this skill belongs because OW divers are at higher risk of accidents than more experienced divers. This is an often heard criticism of the PADI system and there is certainly something to be said for that. Several agencies teach this skill at the OW level and there is a lively debate about whether or not all newbie divers should know how to "rescue" an unconscious diver under water.

On the other hand, you could say that a newbie diver really should focus on their own diving and that they should get as much attention during the OW course to developing and practicing their OWN skills as possible. After all, a diver who spent more time during OW on practice is less likely to be in a situation where they need to be rescued and/or need to rescue someone else.

This is the PADI approach.

It turns out that the difference in approach doesn't make a damned bit of difference in the accident statistics. I'm sure there will be some anecdotal case of a diver who rescued their buddy because they learned it and there is certainly an anecdotal case of a diver who didn't need to be rescued because they spent more time working on personal skills.

Time is what it is. You can only spend time once. The question is... what do you want to spend it ON?

I'll tell you how I weigh in. I recently taught my daughter how to dive. I've been introducing her to diving for the last 3 years. Her buoyancy control, comfort and communication were 100% before she even started with the "official" course.

Even then, I didn't teach her a CBL of a "dead/unconscious" diver at the OW level. What did I want from her? That her buoyancy control is outstanding, her buddy skills are outstanding and that all of the 19 foundation skills she needed to learn are outstanding and that she can think creatively when problems arise.

In other words, I want her to *avoid* getting in a situation where lifting a dead/unconscious victim from the bottom is what her dive boils down to. If she learned what I taught her (and I think she did) then for the rest of her life she will never need to CBL a corpse.

In my mind you have to teach OW students to deal with stuff that will actually happen to them. How many will need buoyancy control? How many will need to CBL a corpse?

I know what I'll spend my time on.

R..
 
I imagine on any dive there is a Dive Master who will step-in for any emergency. I know CPR and know a thing or two about first aid, but would not say I could "rescue" someone if I had to. Wouldn't this be for an uber-professional?

You've been given some good answers ... I'll add mine as someone who teaches the NAUI Rescue class.

There are two components to the Rescue class. The first, and the one that gets emphasized the most, is what to do if you and a buddy encounter a situation where one of you has to assist the other to the surface and subsequently out of the water. This part of the class encompasses some of the most common emergencies we can anticipate, such as reacting to a situation that induces stress, a lack of consciousness, an injury, or a panic response. It teaches you not only what you can do to assist, but also what you should not do so as to not turn yourself into someone else who needs assistance. Defining your limitations as a recreationally-trained diver is important, as the first rule of rescue is to not turn yourself into a second casualty. The in-water part of the class focuses on how you should respond to this type of an emergency.

The second, and equally useful part of the class emphasizes how to recognize a situation that can lead to an emergency ... so that you can take steps to head it off before it becomes one. In NAUI parlance we refer to that as the "Zero Accident Goal". Others may call it self-rescue. But the important concept is that there are fundamental things that can lead up to a stressful situation, and stress can lead to distress, and distress can lead to an accident that requires intervention. It's a common theme among diving accidents that there isn't one single event that causes the accident, but rather a chain of events that are recognizable, if you know what to look for. Break the chain at any point and the accident doesn't happen ... and that's the best outcome, and therefore the most desirable. The emphasis then is to learn how to recognize when you're starting down that chain of events, and what to do to break the chain before it leads to a bad outcome.

There are differences of opinion among agencies as to when teaching this class is appropriate. Some agencies ... like NAUI ... encourage it to be taken as soon after your Open Water class as possible. Other agencies believe you should gain diving experience first, then take the class. There are pros and cons both ways. NAUI teaches some skills in their Open Water class ... such as unconscious diver recovery ... that other agencies leave out until Rescue class. Rather than debate which way is more appropriate, my take is to get into a Rescue class as soon as is practical and either gain or refine the skills there, regardless of the approach taken by your Open Water instructor.

I personally believe that after Open Water, Rescue class is the most important training you can take ... both for your own benefit, and for that of whoever you choose to dive with. It affects not just your physical skills, but fundamentally how you think about doing your dive. It helps you recognize, and therefore avoid, some mistakes that are commonly made by newer divers that can lead to bad outcomes. So it's a good investment.

As to your comment about Dive Masters stepping in ... I would counsel you to never rely on a DM to get you out of trouble. In many parts of the world ... including the area you live in ... DM's don't typically accompany divers in the water. You're expected to plan and conduct your own dive without supervision, and therefore these basic rescue skills can come in really handy. These skills are not for the uber-professional ... they're for everybody who dives ... even the occasional vacation diver who only ever does guided dives. Think about this for a moment ... what if your Dive Master is assisting someone else and suddenly you need help? Wouldn't you want there to be someone else nearby who could render assistance? Wouldn't you want to be the diver who could do that for your dive buddy? That's the value of Rescue training. And anyone with a basic Open Water certification should have the skills to successfully complete the class curriculum.

I highly recommend it for everyone who dives ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Diver0001, Agree completely on time being what it is. My solution is one that won't happen--probably because of liability. Put all the rescue techniques in the OW manual for students at least to read about them. At least that's something--I'd rather buddy with someone who has read about them than someone with no clue at all.
 
I imagine on any dive there is a Dive Master who will step-in for any emergency. ....

Well maybe! That is if she sees you. In my experience where a DM led the dive, the DM was too busy looking for cool stuff to see. Sure, the more conscientious DM's will check frequently to get an OK, but don't always expect this. As previously mentioned a rescue class and experience diving will take you a long way in handling emergencies on your own. If you don't have a lot of confidence in yourself try to have you and your buddy swim ahead of the group (but not ahead of the DM). This way, at least, if you get into trouble someone in the group behind you will see you and can help until the DM gets to you.
 
Diver0001, Agree completely on time being what it is. My solution is one that won't happen--probably because of liability. Put all the rescue techniques in the OW manual for students at least to read about them. At least that's something--I'd rather buddy with someone who has read about them than someone with no clue at all.

I agree that not everyone should buddy with an OW diver who doesn't have the full skill-set yet. Your buddy should be able to live up to your expectations!

Call me simple, but for my part, I've never thought that I would have needed a wet-behind the ears student to rescue me. If it does come down to that then something *so* out of the ordinary has happened that they probably couldn't have been trained for it anyway.

If you see risk as a factor of "chance times effect" then two groups of divers run higher than nominal risks. The first are new divers who have a higher chance of incidents but whom dive within the NDL's and at fairly shallow depths. The other are highly experienced divers, who perhaps have a lower chance of an incident but due to their profiles and activities have an elevated probability that the effect will be more severe.

It turns out that both of these groups show higher than nominal levels of risk. Who is safer to dive with? The OW diver who is still learning and hasn't taken rescue or the "guru" who thinks he has nothing more to learn and has....?

According to statistics it's a coin-flip.

R..
 
I imagine on any dive there is a Dive Master who will step-in for any emergency. I know CPR and know a thing or two about first aid, but would not say I could "rescue" someone if I had to. Wouldn't this be for an uber-professional?
For many divers it is the exception that there is a DM present on the dive. See below for examples
1. Beach Dive, just you and your buddy, no DM present
2. Boat dive off a private boat, no DM present
3. Boat dive off a commercial SCUBA Dive Boat - DM on the boat, but not in the water is the common practice where I live in California. That DM would respond to an emergency once the dive buddy surfaced and signaled for help and they swam out to them. But would it not be better for the dive buddy to have the additional training and start working the problem at the time it happens? Once on the surface they could signal for help and continue to work the rescue until the DM arrives.

Better to have 10 rescue trained divers in the water than one DM per 20 divers in the water. Best course you are going to take.
4. In an emergency a single DM may need assistance.
5. The Rescue class is more about learning how to avoid trouble than rescue. Great course for all divers to take. IMHO is the last course the average recreational (non-technical, cave/wreck diving) diver needs to take. Master Diver is not really IMHO a value added. DM or Instructor are only if you plan on working in the field and enjoy paying the annual renewal (DM and Instructor certification cards expire yearly) and the cost of insurance as a professional (this is liability insurance not dive insurance which you should also have)
 
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Diver0001, Yes, I've read about the two "more at risk" groups. Logically a diver with rescue skills but not hundreds/thousands of dives would be a less risky buddy to dive with--but who knows. I also agree about something having to be out of the ordinary for a buddy without rescue skills to be a danger to yourself. The one thing that comes to mind is sudden unconsciousness at depth. A not skilled person may take you up incorrectly and cause embolism. I know this would be very rare, but possible-fainting/heart attack, etc. With the latter you're probably done for anyway. I did show an old OW buddy how to do this just for my own peace of mind. I also bungee cord my reg in the mouth so in case I do lose consciousness diving solo I probably have a chance to recover without drowning (can't afford a full face mask). I'm probably just paranoid though. I too am pretty confident of my own abilities regarding rescue/self rescue. Two OW (non skilled in rescue) divers buddying up remains very questionable to me.
 
Normally this is interpreted to mean performing a CBL (controlled buoyant lift) of an dead/unconscious diver.

PADI does (indeed) not teach this at the OW level. In the PADI system learning this skill is delayed until the Rescue course.

One could argue that the OW course is where this skill belongs because OW divers are at higher risk of accidents than more experienced divers. This is an often heard criticism of the PADI system and there is certainly something to be said for that. Several agencies teach this skill at the OW level and there is a lively debate about whether or not all newbie divers should know how to "rescue" an unconscious diver under water.

On the other hand, you could say that a newbie diver really should focus on their own diving and that they should get as much attention during the OW course to developing and practicing their OWN skills as possible. After all, a diver who spent more time during OW on practice is less likely to be in a situation where they need to be rescued and/or need to rescue someone else.

This is the PADI approach.

It turns out that the difference in approach doesn't make a damned bit of difference in the accident statistics. I'm sure there will be some anecdotal case of a diver who rescued their buddy because they learned it and there is certainly an anecdotal case of a diver who didn't need to be rescued because they spent more time working on personal skills.

Time is what it is. You can only spend time once. The question is... what do you want to spend it ON?

I'll tell you how I weigh in. I recently taught my daughter how to dive. I've been introducing her to diving for the last 3 years. Her buoyancy control, comfort and communication were 100% before she even started with the "official" course.

Even then, I didn't teach her a CBL of a "dead/unconscious" diver at the OW level. What did I want from her? That her buoyancy control is outstanding, her buddy skills are outstanding and that all of the 19 foundation skills she needed to learn are outstanding and that she can think creatively when problems arise.

In other words, I want her to *avoid* getting in a situation where lifting a dead/unconscious victim from the bottom is what her dive boils down to. If she learned what I taught her (and I think she did) then for the rest of her life she will never need to CBL a corpse.

In my mind you have to teach OW students to deal with stuff that will actually happen to them. How many will need buoyancy control? How many will need to CBL a corpse?

I know what I'll spend my time on.

R..

It also includes panicked diver at the surface, supporting a diver for two minutes and helping them establish positive buoyancy, and rescue tow while stripping gear with two rescue breaths delivered before starting the tow. The latter is likely to be changed very soon with the new CPR guidelines according to my sources. I expect it's just going to be the tow while stripping gear as that is more effective in getting the diver to proper care. These take all of an hour in the pool with as many as four students (my max class size) to teach effectively.

For me in many cases the last person I would count on for anything more than a site briefing is a DM. Depends on the location. California? those guys are good. But they stay on the boat unless needed. Florida usually no DM on the boats I would use. Caribbean? A crap shoot. better to not rely on anyone but yourself and your buddy.
 
two years ago we were discussing the "just get the victim to the boat" vs. "rescue breathing".....
 

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