Required to tow a flag on Curacao?

[WarmWaterDiver]

When we visited Hawaii we were not informed of any dive flag / float requirements for all the shore diving we on The Big Island, Maui, nor Kauai either.

My middle aged ears still work well enough to give me an extra reminer to really - I mean really - look up and all around above me to see where the engine noise may be coming from well before coming anywhere close to the surface. Boats, jet skis, wave runners, etc. all fit in this category. My attention to specific wavelenths corresponding to the wife's vocal range may have diminished over the years due to what she terms as 'selective husband hearing' but the vibrations transmitted by motorized water craft under way don't fall in that band width.

It's the non-motorized water craft that post the larger hazard IMO. You don't get any engine noise warning from surfboards (also present at Cane Bay where we're primarily diving this week while on St. Croix as well as on Maui), diveyaks, kayaks, sailboards, and kiteboards etc. No engine noises to really, really remind one of their potential presence and this is the primary factor for us to no longer visit BON with the objective of diving spots like Atlantis from shore that we enjoyed a lot in prior trips.

There's been plenty of coverage of all angles of this issue regarding SMB's, water craft, etc. on the Bonaire Talk board for years, including variants on what folks do from watercraft when seeing either a diver down float or inflated SMB both in the lower 48 and abroad, as to whether that honestly contributes more to diver safety or safety hazard based on what the people operating the water craft motorized or not do in response to seeing such devices.

 

[bkpix]

Yes, we did see at least one Lionfish on most dives, but my wife was pretty much looking for them. They were never out in the open, mostly tucked into a crevice in a large coral head or wall; you would only see them if you had a flashlight and were actively looking for them. Does that mean that they will not eventually proliferate to the point where you see them out in the open, probably not. That being said, I have seen pictures of them from Mexico, the Bay Islands, The Bahamas and many other Caribbean locations. Should it stop you from diving any of those places.....why would it. The fish, at least the ones we saw, were not the least bit aggresive. It is sad that they are eating many of the smaller local reef fish, but I think we would be well advised to use extreme caution in what is done to try to control them. Attempting to kill every one you see seems futile at this point. Introducing a "natural preditor" would most likely do more harm then good.

Now back to what this threrad was originally about, towing a flag. We did 30 something dives over two weeks, did not tow a flag, and had no problem with coast guard, other law enforcement, or boat traffic. I do carry a safety sausage, and if I heard or saw boat traffic in the area I would have inflated it on the swim out to the reef. On most shore dives I do a moving safety interval; swimming back to the beach underwater. See lots of interesting stuff in the shallows, and surfacing in boat traffic is eliminated. All of our dives have been on more of the western part of the island. The farthest east we got was Porto Marie. If we did more dives closer to the big city where there would have been more boat traffic, things might have been different.

The fishermen of the island pretty much don't like divers. They think all divers are destroying their fish traps and otherwise interfering with their ability to make a living. Would they mess with the flags or use them against divers somehow? Nobody knows. On my first trip to the island we did many boat dives and a just a few shore dives. On one of the boat dives I was just looking around the reef when a large baited treble-hook came down right on top of me. Was it an accident? Hard to say. Would a dive flag have prevented it? If it was an intentional act the flag would have made it easier to tell where divers were. Of course the dive boat was a pretty good indication of divers in the water in that particular instance, so............

This above information is probably going to "piss-off" a lot of Curacao locals. I am not trying to ruin their business or tell people not to go there because of out of control fishermen. Did I let that incident keep me from going back to the island, obviously not. Will I let it keep me from going back in the future? No way!! What I am saying is: do dive flags always help? It seems there are two sides to that. The line used to tow the flag or sausage could get tangled in something and cause you a problem, it could rub against the reef and destroy something, the flag could be used as a turn bouy for rude jet skiers. (I have seen that done on more then one occasion) it could make you the target of a wayword fish hook, or in the best of worlds it can let boaters know they need to be careful and keep their eyes open for people on the surface. What it seems to come down to is that you are in control of your actions. Pay attention and stay safe!

 

[jd950]

WWD:

I think someone has been giving you some incorrect information on St. Croix.

From the March 9, 2010 St. John Source (http://stjohnsource.com/content/news/local-news/2010/03/09/first-lionfish-captured-st-john)

"The lionfish invasion of the U.S. Virgin Islands began on St. Croix, with the first one captured in December 2008. William Coles, chief of environmental education at the Fish and Wildlife Division of the Planning and Natural Resources Department, said to date a total of 19 lionfish were captured across the territory. That number includes the one caught Tuesday on St. John, two on St. Thomas and 16 on St. Croix."

And there is this from the LIONFISH RESPONSE MANAGEMENT PLAN US VIRGIN ISLANDS October 2009

"As of September 21, 2009, only nine lionfish have been collected in the waters around St. Croix. They ranged in size from a few inches to 11 inches in length."


I also just checked and at least in the area of St. Croix that is part of the marine park and used for diving and snorkeling, a towed flag is required by law.It may be required anywhere on the island, but I don't know.

 

[jd950]

Thank you everyone for the information. It seems the situation is the same as before...the law requires it but there are no signs of active enforcement but if a diver chooses not to use a flag, they run the risks associated with violating the law. Fair enough.

I know there are arguments both ways form a safety perspective and did not want to get an argument started over that. I do what I think needs to be done to be safe in the situation in which I find myself.

I have never had any problems with the fishermen. I know there are some tensions between them and divers, but so far I haven't seen anything personally and hope to keep it that way.

 

[Curacao Sunshine]

Had 2 great dives today. One to the right at Alice In Wonderland at OEW and a one way dive from Playa Piskado to the dive shop. Didn't use a flag but on this Wednesday there wasn't any boat traffic, and did not see a lionfish. I was looking in crevasses for an octopus, without any luck but..... we were with Korsou on our second dive. He pointed out 3 tuna and behind them was a humongus bait ball (the volume of a city bus) and behind it was a turtle. He mentioned seeing a sargassum (silver eyed) triggerfish. I thought I had missed it but after reviewing the bible, I may remember seeing it and thinking it was a different kind of file fish. My on the spot fish ID is not the best. A couple more turtles added to our 75 minute dive - but no octopus.

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

WWD:

I think someone has been giving you some incorrect information on St. Croix.

From the March 9, 2010 St. John Source (http://stjohnsource.com/content/news/local-news/2010/03/09/first-lionfish-captured-st-john)

"The lionfish invasion of the U.S. Virgin Islands began on St. Croix, with the first one captured in December 2008. William Coles, chief of environmental education at the Fish and Wildlife Division of the Planning and Natural Resources Department, said to date a total of 19 lionfish were captured across the territory. That number includes the one caught Tuesday on St. John, two on St. Thomas and 16 on St. Croix."

And there is this from the LIONFISH RESPONSE MANAGEMENT PLAN US VIRGIN ISLANDS October 2009

"As of September 21, 2009, only nine lionfish have been collected in the waters around St. Croix. They ranged in size from a few inches to 11 inches in length."


I also just checked and at least in the area of St. Croix that is part of the marine park and used for diving and snorkeling, a towed flag is required by law.It may be required anywhere on the island, but I don't know.

And in your calendar March was last month jd950?

Could you be troubled to look back at the info I had received for 4 last month which is April on the calendar my PC, dive computer, a nd other common chronographs record? Its real simple to go back to the first page of this thread.

I agree completely with bxpix - one of the most recent issues of a popular scba diving magazine has an article on diving the Mexican Riviera with afull page pic opposite the title page of a large barrel sponge and reef scene - with a lionfish in the lower left corner.

Guess what? We did two more dives today and still didn't see a lionfish or have anyone tell us we neded a dive float flag here! And, it was great vacation fun!

On an unguided night dive at Cabne Bay we saw and photographed a large sea pen, only the second one we've ever seen and photographed in our travels (the first Caribbean sea pen we saw and photographed was during a trip to St. Eustatius).

We'll make sure to post a full trip report with pics when we return, in the appropriate sub-forum, either on this board or a friendlier one devoted to this sport / hobby. Either way we'll post the report on one board and a link to it on the other.

Back to again agreeing with bxpix about how one could draw unwanted attention anywhere under water on the face of this planet by towing a dive float / flag.

 

[UnderwaterBumbleBee]

Attempting to kill every one you see seems futile at this point. Introducing a "natural preditor" would most likely do more harm then good.

There's very little known about any natural predators to lionfish, even in their natural habitats. There is some evidence that some sharks and native groupers have had them in their stomachs. Due to overfishing there aren't enough groupers out there and the lionfish eat them when they are small. They might not have appeared aggressive to you but we saw tons of them in the Bahamas, often times multiple occupying the same area. Every one of them were quite large and very observant. The second we got remotely close they would align themselves with the reef, with their faces down and their backs to you splaying their spines in a protective stance. When they get that big they don't even try to hide in a crevice, they own the reef. It's more so recommended to take the invasion very seriously as soon as they show up or it will be impossible to make a difference once they are out of control.

I had never seen one until the Bahamas and my awe wore off real quick after about the first couple dives we did there. There's so many islands out there with no one to help control this issue and it was really amazing how many of them there were and how large they were. Their larvae is planktonic and I've heard this helps aid their ability to spread. After that trip, I'm convinced they will eventually be everywhere but any attempt to control them is worthwhile.

 

[jd950]

And in your calendar March was last month jd950? Could you be troubled to look back at the info I had received for 4 last month which is April on the calendar my PC, dive computer, a nd other common chronographs record? Its real simple to go back to the first page of this thread.

I am aware of the month, thank you. Luckily, my mental faculties are sufficient that I know this, even without resorting to my "PC, dive computer and other common chronographs record." You said that "Our dive guide yesterday informed us lionfish are starting to appear at St. Croix" and you then added that 4 had been found in the last month, which you then correctly calculated to be one per week.

I provided you with a March, 2010 news article because it was informative and recent, not because I thought it was still April (I can't believe I really need to explain this). I thought perhaps you had been misinformed by your tour guide, and was trying to be helpful.

The clear implication of your post is that lionfish are a new phenomenon for St Croix and limited in number, in contrast to the swarms of angry lionfish terrorizing Curacao. This implication is quite incorrect. That is unless you and your tour guide consider 2008 to be sufficiently recent to constitute "starting to appear." Just in case your chronograph is off, it is 2010 now.

I have no idea how many lionfish were found in April around St. Croix. Neither do I really care; I would not let the presence of lionfish dictate my choice of dive destination. I am unsure why you even felt the need to bring up lionfish or St. Croix in this thread, or the fact that your fear of the fish may cause you to avoid Curacao in the future. This thread was simply a discussion of the dive flag requirements for Curacao.

If Curacao is an unappealing dive destination for you then by all means avoid it. I hope you continue to enjoy your trip to St. Croix and your future dive trips, wherever they may take you.

 

[UnderwaterBumbleBee]

In spirit of this thread I think you should tow an angry lionfish on your trip to Curacao.

Angry Exuma Lionfish Below:

 

[Curacao Sunshine]

BBB, I see the camera's working quite well.

Sure, if you tow a lionfish, the nasty spines might slice through the jet skis using it as a jibe buoy But then, there would be all that disabled boat rubble in the water. Oh, will those lionfish never stop tormenting us?

A little light humor here, people!