Regulator dilemma

[AndyNZ]

OK, it's time for a new reg set for me and oh boy, what a dilemma!

My main reg set consists of a Mares V32 first stage with a Proton Ice second stage. No real complaints, breathes ok at depth it just sounds/feels a bit "dry" at time (possibly a bad service?).

I know what I want - an Apeks DS4 first stage with a Tungsten second stage. I'd also consider a Zeagle Flathead, but there's no importer/dealer in New Zealand and I'd rather buy local to get support and servicing.

The Apeks is not cheap here, and there's only one service centre for Apeks that I know of and that makes me a little queasy when it comes to servicing.

If it wasn't for the discount my LDS is offering on alternatives, I'd just save my pennies and do it. But I've been offered staff discount rates, basically wholesale, on either Mares Abyss or Scubapro MK25/S600.

I don't think that the Abyss is going to be much different from the V32/Proton that I already have. The MK25/S600 seems a nice reg but I don't really trust the Scubapro system of not-quite-really-environmentally-sealing the first stage. I don't dive in silly cold water, mostly around the 12-20 degC range but with the odd dive over winter around 8 degC.

Anyone want to share their experiences on the Abyss or the MK25/S600? I can take them both for a try before spending any cash but just curious on other peoples thoughts.

Thanks.

 

[Vie]

If you dive single tank, the MK25 is hard to beat from the hose routing perspective. I’ve had my MK20/S600 for five years and never had any problems. My gf uses a MK25/G250HP which is slightly cheaper but just as good as pairing a MK25 with the S600, IMHO (MK25/G250HP does have a better reputation in very cold water than the MK25/S600 pairing); disclaimer: I have never taken my MK20/S600 below 15 degC. For colder water diving you might also want to look at a Scubapro MK17/G250HP—I have no experience with the MK17 though. The MK25 hose routing is pretty nice for doubles but not as nice as some Apeks.

If you are looking at Apeks, they route very nicely for doubles. For cold water diving, the FST (Flathead)/TX100 is a good combination, as is the DS4/TX100 or ATX50 (if you want a smaller second stage). The Tungsten second stage is basically a prettied up ATX50. I own a set of FSR/ATX200—it’s great but pointlessly pricey, IMHO.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I have never had a Mk 25 freeze in low to mid 30 degree water, but I have had buddies the same dives with me who did (on 5 occasions).

I see it as more of a problem with the S600 second stage with the G250. Perfomance is otherwise idnetical. The S600 offers a smaller case and appeals to the small is better crowd, but the extra size of the G250 allows the use of a large ad more responsive diaophragm and the very minimal extra weight is offset by the extra displacement so the jaw fatigue argument is bogus.

The Mk 25 does offer nice hose routing for singles, but the Mk 17 is superior for hose routing on doubles as you can route the hoses straight down. The sealed Mk 17 design is also bullet proof in cold water and has survived max flow rates at 165 feet in 35 degree water for 200 minutes (the end of the test) without freezing up.

The 177 SCFM flow rate is also more than adequate for any technical or recreational purpose and in my opinion, my finely tuned D400's breathe as well or perhaps even better on a MK 17 than they did on a MK 20 or Mk 25.

The staff discount is a possibel issue thoug as many shops do the staff discount to get the staff to use high end gear. If the shop owner will throw you the same deal on a Mk 17 G250 or Mk 17 X650, jump on it.

 

[dannobee]

I doubt you'll see much difference in "upgrading" to either of those regs, at least any change that's worth <$400. Try them first to see if you're willing to dump more cash down. BTW, I have four or five regs, including the Proton Ice and an Apeks ATX200 and ATX50. I like the Ice. Maybe they'll let you dive a new one because, as you stated, there might be something wrong with yours since the last service?

 

[jarmar]

I still have and use Scubapro Mk5. It was my first modern one hose regulator (besides twin-hose and some kind of "hand made" one hose I used at the end of 70). I bouth it at the beginning of 80. It used to work hard: murky, muddy water, under ice, etc. No freezing, no any problem. I just cleaned it with fresh water and once a while disassemble second stage to flush out sand. A 2 years ago I decided to do first general maintenance. Brought it to NYC Scubapro dealer and they exchanged o small bag of parts.
It still works perfect-the same like before.
So, when I decided to buy a new regulator, it was clear to me to pick up another SP: Mk25/x650. I knew they had some kind of problem with second stage diaphragm but the dealer didn't mention it and I liked SP. After a few dives up to 100 ft without any troubles they called me to exchange the diaphragm and I was even more happy with the regulator.
A few months later I found out a small air leak coming from RAPID INTERMEDIATE PRESSURE ADJUSTMENT-located under black plastic cap on the first stage. It was constantly leak on the surface and in the water. The dealer technician wasn't suprice. After a few minutes in the back of the store he brought me my regulator in one hand and a white plastic gasket in the other one. He told me a story about somebody in the Scubapro factory putting inside the extra small white piece. Some of Mk25 come with it, most of them without it. He just threw it in the garbage. Mk25 is still my main regulator, no more leak, but when I am something about 150 ft under I start thinking who is right: the engineers and technicians at the SP factory or the guy from NYC shop. It gives me extra thrill.
I used to like SP. Not any more. I look for Apeks.
Any similar experiences?

 

[AndyNZ]

Thanks for the input guys.

I don't really need a reg "upgrade", it's just time to retire (sell on!) my pool regs before they get too trashed, switch my current main regs to the pool and have a new set for personal use.

Unfortunately, Scubapro don't import the MK17 or the G250 into Australasia - though sounds like it might be worth checking if the wholesaler will do a special order. The fact that the MK17 is sealed works for me. I prefer diaphragm first stages anyway, so that also works for me.

 

[rescuediver009]

I honestly, don't see a problem for you with the Scubapro 25. It is an awesome reg that will (i think) put your Mares to shame. One the other hand if you want a DS4 distant cousin, take a look at the mk16. I think that you would also like this one.

 

[mart1]

For warm water, the MK25 S600 is the best regulator on the market. For colder water take the MK25 S550.
If you don't do any serious deep diving any diphragm regulator will do, MK17 is OK, but Apeks as well. This has to do with the fact a diaphragm regulator will allways have a limited max air flow compared to a piston one.

ciao, mart

 

[aquaoren]

I have taken the Mares Abyss in the last couple of years through couple hundred dives ranging from the warm water of the Red Sea to the frigid waters of Nova Scotia and the great lakes in the winter and it always performed flawlessly without even a hick up. Excellent breather regardless how cold or deep you are.
I recently got me a pair of Apeks DS4/ATX50 for my doubles setup. I thought it will be an "upgrade" but the regs gave me more trouble in 40 dives than the Abyss in over 200 and IMHO don't breath as nice as the Mares. I may have gotten me a pair of lemons but I'm not as impressed as I thought I'll be after all the rave about them. Don't get me wrong, they breath nice. Mostlikely better than many other regs on the market but I somehow prefer the way how my Abyss delivers the air.
I did about 40 dives on the old Scubapro MK20/G250 and it was a very nice reg as well. They make excellent and solid gear too. BTW, in the temperature range you have mentioned, I wouldn't be to concerned about freezing or freeflowing.
I'd suggest asking the shop to try both regs, compare them to what you have and make an informed decision as to which reg you like more. A reg for wholesale cost is always nice thing.
From the regs you've named, I'd probably take the Scubapro but only because I already have an Abyss.

 

[rescuediver009]

For warm water, the MK25 S600 is the best regulator on the market. For colder water take the MK25 S550.
If you don't do any serious deep diving any diphragm regulator will do, MK17 is OK, but Apeks as well. This has to do with the fact a diaphragm regulator will allways have a limited max air flow compared to a piston one.

ciao, mart

Not so much the amount of air that is delivered but moreso, the moving components are exposed on the regs whereas a diaphragm reg they are protected and cannot freeze.