Reg setups: a Philosophy Question

[King_of_All_Tyrants]

I'm about to buy a regulator, and I'm pondering which setup I should use. (I debated between posting this in general SCUBA or in equipment/regulators, and decided to put it in here since is more a philosophy than technical question).

I've heard of at least three different setups:

1. the PADI/"rec dive" way : a 1st stage, a 2nd stage with a 24" or so hose, an octo with a hose of about the same size attached to your BC. You breathe out of the 2nd stage, you give the octo to your OOA buddy.

Philosophy: divers should dive in pairs in order to dive safely. You stick with your buddy. If someone runs out of air or suffers an equipment failure, you abort the dive and go up, you with the 2nd stage, the buddy with the octo.

My thoughts: this is the school approach, but I'm not fond of it, even in tropical diving.

2. the DIR way: a 1st stage, a 2nd stage with a 5' hose and an octo bungied around your neck (7' for caves, 5' for open water). You give the 2nd stage to the OOA buddy and breathe out of the bungied octo.

Philosophy: it's a religion, not a philosophy!!! (just kidding)

My thoughts: Makes much more sense IMHO than #1. I like this a lot.

3. NJ wreck diver's way: discussed on a website of New Jersey diving, this has a 1st stage, a 2nd stage attached to a hose of around 4 feet, and a pony bottle (if you're diving single tank). There is no octo; this is viewed as a waste of money since you use your pony bottle when you're OOA and because the likelihood of both a 2nd stage only failure and having to give air to someone else is minimal. The pony bottle is more reliable because it's a completely redundant system; if your normal setup has a failure you have a (hopefully reliable!) complete backup to head back up with.

Philosophy: because of the currents, poor visibility, mandatory-deco depths and relatively high experience level of New Jersey diving, all your dives are essentially solo dives. You need to be as self-reliant as possible.

My thoughts: a lot of my dives may be in conditions similar to this - but are probably not as unforgiving or demanding as this. I generally intend to dive with the buddy system, but if I choose this route I can still give the OOA buddy my main regulator and breathe from the pony. Also if I have a catastrophic equipment failure I still have options. My only problem is that it's very east coast specific. Having two regulators and a pony bottle on you may be a bit much in most kinds of diving (and may be a bit much for most of my projected dives).




So, I'm trying to pick which setup is best for me; obviously each one has differenit equipment requirements. I'd appreciate people's thoughts.

First, my typical dive profiles: I will be diving mostly locally: in quarries in VA/MD/PA, on pretty murky wrecks along the coasts of said states; along the NC coast; along the NJ coast; occasional dives on the west coast, as well as an annual week-long trip to the tropics. All will be "recreational" dives within 120' in generally temperate waters. (I don't want to mess with so-called "techincal diving" even in its basic steps right now).

Second: my equipment. My 1st stage is a Scubapro Mk17. 2nd is a D400. Octo (if I get one) is the R190. Pony bottle setup (if I go this route) is the Mk2/R190.

Third: My hope is to have an equipment setup that covers all the bases and have no redundant equipment. Obviously, buying everything in the equipment section would solve my dillema, but I'd rather not spend the extra $150 ($400) for an octo (pony bottle and extra reg) I don't need.



So, I guess the main questions are:

1. is a pony bottle a better choice than an octo in the types of diving I'm going to be doing, in your opinion?

2. what setup would you choose for the diving I'm talking about?

Thanks for your thoughts,

KoAT

[edited to fix a few little things]

 

[TSandM]

I am a great believer in the necklaced secondary/long hose primary system. But I will say that, for that system to represent true redundancy for YOU, you have to dive with a buddy who is committed to staying close enough to provide meaningful help, and who has good enough situational awareness to pick up your signal that you are in trouble.

If you are diving deep and frequently doing so with people you don't know and can't trust, you probably need to provide your own redundancy, which means either doubles or a pony bottle. Just make sure, if you are going to take down a separate tank, that it has a meaningful amount of gas in it.

 

[H2Andy]

i'm with the primary (7 feet is nice) and secondary on a necklace setup

you donate a working reg, and are ready if someone snatches it from you

you just go to your secondary, which is always secured around your neck. no fumbling around for it required.

the share is effected with a minimum of effort for both the OOA diver, who is probably already stressed enough, and you, who don't need to be stressed at all

 

[jarhed]

If your setting up for solo diving, in my opinion, an octo is not useful, unless you are less than fully confident in your primary 2nd stage. A 5-7ft primary hose is useless. I lean towards doubles or a pony for a redundant system for me. If you dive with a buddy and expect each other to provide redundancies, then the extra 2nd stage becomes a nice option.

Take care,
John

 

[Dive-aholic]

I'm with Andy, 7' reg with bungied back up. But that's what we dive in caves. Keep in mind when making your decision that you will probably be required to have an octo or some sort on your annual week long tropics trips, especially if you do any liveaboards. Even with a pony, if you can fly it there, some operations will be stringent on their rules.

 

[waterpirate]

My vote is for the pony bottle for redundancy, put the reg where it makes sense to you, either bungeed to bottle if slung, bungeed knecklace, tethered to bc.
If you are going to dive NJ,MD,DE,NC, many boat operators require a pony or doubles to dive.
Hope this helps
Eric

 

[mojokelt]

Currently I have the setup most commonly used where I dive:

2nd stage over right shoulder
Octo over left, on breakaway holder, setup for other diver

To which I have now added a pony with its reg on a bungie around my neck.

My main reason for going with the pony is that although we stick to strictly recreational limits (at the minute) I want to know that before I go in the water that I am self sufficient and do need to involve my buddy except as a backup for the backup. One bad buddy can be one too many! Plus I feel safer knowing that I can look after my buddy if needs be.

Tom

 

[joe rock]

My vote is for the pony bottle for redundancy, put the reg where it makes sense to you, either bungeed to bottle if slung, bungeed knecklace, tethered to bc.
If you are going to dive NJ,MD,DE,NC, many boat operators require a pony or doubles to dive.
Hope this helps
Eric

This is a much debated topic on SB and as the OP noted the arguements are very geographic centric. I have to agree with Eric here. Given the locations that will be your primary diving - in many cases you must have a redundant source (doubles of pony) or you won't get to dive.

JR

 

[Humble older aquaman]

Being independent (pony or doubles) is strong comfort. I'm sure some may disagree, but I've found there is no one rig for all diving. In controled environment (pool?) perhaps flexing various configurations, and feeling first hand which one feels the best for you is the answer. For some of us who've been diving for decades, gear rigs and uses have evolved and do believe will continue to evolve. Just be careful to approach change in a measured way. Once you get used to something being reflexive, go and change the gear thing, and the reflex answer may not be a good one.

Most important, pick one and go diving!

Hoa!

 

[gangrel441]

I recently was at an ice dive. After I had completed my own brief dive (I was just there to test out drysuits before making my own final purchase decision), I stuck around as surface support. One diver came up after a short dive because his reg had freeflowed, inflating his bc and forcing him to breathe off the freeflow. He said he was not worried about his air situation, because he still had his pony as backup. Little did know at the time, after we got him out of the water, we shut his main cylendar valve down to stop his reg from freeflowing, and still heard a reg exhausting. It was not until we shut down his pony that the freeflows had stopped. Had he depended on that pony bottle for a backup, I am guessing he likely would have been ok...however, the potential for disaster was definately there.....