Reg for twin set?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

One of the great things (and the reason I'm slowly migrating to) Deep 6 is the ability to service your own regs. I had to wait 8 weeks to get one reg serviced recently.

Chris,

The shops (like Tacoma Scuba near me) will service the regs, yes? Maybe @stuartv can contact the shop closest to him.

Though $150 for 2 regs is a very good price.

 

[cerich]

One of the great things (and the reason I'm slowly migrating to) Deep 6 is the ability to service your own regs. I had to wait 8 weeks to get one reg serviced recently.

Chris,

The shops (like Tacoma Scuba near me) will service the regs, yes? Maybe @stuartv can contact the shop closest to him.

Though $150 for 2 regs is a very good price.

yes, Tacoma will be able to service your regs, only labour, kits are free when you go thru a demo center (like Tacoma) or a Deep 6 Ind Instr that services. Self service, kits you purchase (you can use the spares that come with reg of course for the first go around)

 

[LandonL]

Okay, let's make it simple. What are all the costs if I always ship my Deep6 doubles set regs to you for service and I do not have a service plan? For the first 5 years.

D6 reg set:
$835 for regulator set
$0 for 2 year service
$150 for 4 year service (plus shipping to us only)
So $985 plus shipping to us, twice.
Lets call it $1035 total. (bumping it up to $25 each time in shipping)

DR reg set:
$749 for reg set
$140 2yr service
$140 4yr service
So $1029 total, plus tax I assume.

So we are looking at a $6 difference, in their favor, but excluding any tax the local shop would charge (since we are being OCD. lol)

The difference that I would highlight here, is that with us you would have 4 spare service kits (2 x 1st, 2 x 2nd) in your tool kit if needed, and a dry box.

I guess it is up to you to decide which is the better value.

You keep mentioning the cost of kits, but Chris says parts are free if I send the regs to you.

That is correct, please see my above comments and please re-read.

But just to be certain, as I've already stated several times... if you order the kits, you pay for them... $22.50 for a first stage kit, $15 for a second stage kit. If you send the regulator to us for service, the kit are free/included. I don't know how much clearer I can make that.

You say shipping is $20 or less. Based on some things I have mailed recently, I am very skeptical that I can ship a doubles set of regs, with suitable insurance, for that cheap.

Fair enough, I've upped the cost to $25... I recently shipping something from Miami to NY, the size of a cooler for that, so I can't imagine regs would cost more, but if we wanted to be really specific give me a zip.

However, can you please specify whether I would be paying shipping both directions or if you are covering return shipping? (again, I'm asking based on always shipping to you for service and NOT having a service plan at all)

As Chris stated, you ship to us, we pay shipping return to you.

 

[cerich]

where as everybody wants to compare the service cost of ours to Dive Rite, does anybody know what the Dive Rite service intervals are (recommended)

I don't, it may be two year, it may be one year. I'm not a math major but that will sure affect the cost eh?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

yes, Tacoma will be able to service your regs, only labour, kits are free when you go thru a demo center (like Tacoma) or a Deep 6 Ind Instr that services. Self service, kits you purchase (you can use the spares that come with reg of course for the first go around)

Sounds like no options are unavailable. Service it yourself (my choice), have a shop/third party service it, or have the manufacturer do it. All at competitive rates. Looks like a big win for divers.

 

[tbone1004]

@stuartv what is likely going to happen is you have a "cost of service" per stage. That cost will include the parts kits. I.e. instead of $25/stage+parts, it will be $40 or something similar to that.

At this point, they have time to figure it out since everything is under warranty. At your current level of diving and experience though, it shouldn't much matter since you should be doing your own service and the very real fact is that these things probably won't have to get serviced until next decade.

On that, evaluating a 5 year cost of ownership is all but impossible unless you strictly adhere to manufacturer recommended service intervals. My 5 year cost on a deep6 reg set is honestly going to be the up front cost of the regulators unless for some reason something fails which is pretty unlikely. My 10 year cost on those is still probably the cost of the regs since the first set of kits is included and I may as well service them myself. I do actually trust Chris enough to service my regs, but since I can do it myself, it's just easier for me to do it in my living room than find a box and mail it back.
That is why when I gave the "5 year cost of ownership" I said "after 1st service" and "after 2nd service" because I honestly can't tell you when I'm going to next service any of my regulators. They tell me.

If you are a sending regs out as rental regs, then you have to abide by mfg service intervals as a CYOA policy, but even then since they are based on number of dives or time, whichever comes first, you can't really hash out a 5 year cost of ownership unless you only go on time. If you are doing that though, odds are you are servicing yourself because the cost of paying someone else to do that would be impractical.

I'm 100% with you on the total cost of ownership. Absolutely 100% with you. With that, the Dive Rite XT's will not come out ahead, I can promise you that. The upfront cost is higher, and the parts kit cost is higher. The only feature they have that the Deep6 regs don't is the reversible function which is only useful in my experience if you subscribe to right hand rich for deco bottles *which I do, but don't have lefty regs so the hoses come straight into my mouth for O2 and 50%*, and you have some weird sidemount hose routing *which I used to with my XTX50's. I don't believe in that for sidemount because it causes the long hose to cross under a diver in a single file air share*.
The Deep6 regs have plenty of other nifty little things that make them in my opinion a better regulator and worth the price increase especially as primary regulators. I'm not sure I could personally justify the cost over the Deep6 DGX regulators for all of my stage/deco regulators, but I could absolutely do it for my primary bottles

 

[stuartv]

cost aside, if you think that the only difference between our reg and others is "orange" then we are obviously doing something wrong.

I take it that none of the extras like the hardcase/free service kits matter? The PVD coating on first, teflon on second stage barrel, turbo poppet in second stage etc?

Because if you want a close to generic OEM reg, get the DGX at Dive Gear express, DR and a few others

I wasn't talking about what I think. I am in the middle. $5 is not going to sway me either way. But, the details do matter. Your comment about not be interested in the customers that are only after "cheapest" is one end of the spectrum. I was being hyperbolic in suggesting that the other end of the spectrum is the customer who doesn't care about anything else and just buys them 'cuz they're orange, man!

The hard case definitely does not matter to me. A hard case is too big/overkill for me for a single tank reg set. And for technical diving, I have one of those big Armor 2-compartment reg bags to hold all my regs and the related parts and tools that I want to keep close at hand. I doubt your hard case would be big enough or keep things well-enough organized for what I would want. I expect it would end up on a shelf with every single other case (hard or soft) that came with any scuba gear I've bought (except my Perdix AI case, which I do keep my Perdix in). I'd rather have a cheaper price and no hard case.

Service kits included is just a cost thing. I'd rather have a doubles reg set for $75 less and no included kits.

The PVD, teflon, etc.? I don't know what that's worth to me. I've haven't tried it. All I can is that I don't have any complaints with my current, 2 year old, DR XTs that I think those things would address. But, maybe I haven't had my regs long enough for some of those things to have made a difference, and I haven't tried the Deep6 regs to know if the other things would make a difference that I would notice and/or want to pay extra for.

@stuartv what is likely going to happen is you have a "cost of service" per stage. That cost will include the parts kits. I.e. instead of $25/stage+parts, it will be $40 or something similar to that.

I'm 100% with you on the total cost of ownership. Absolutely 100% with you. With that, the Dive Rite XT's will not come out ahead, I can promise you that.

As I have said several times, my shop's normal price for reg service is $35 per stage, parts and labor. That is not a special price for me. That is standard price posted on their website. I have my Hollis single tank setup serviced there before I even started DM training. It was $105 for 1 x 1st stage + 2 x 2nd stage. With tax, out the door.

$140, total, for local DR XT (doubles set) service versus $150 plus shipping for Deep6 service. I think the DR XTs DO come out ahead. If shipping and insurance were only $20 a pop that is still a $30 advantage every time you get them serviced (after the initial free one from Deep6).

Now, don't take any of that to be me saying anyone should choose the DR XTs over the Deep6 Signatures. The TCO (now that we really know what it is) is close enough that it definitely wouldn't matter to me, if I were Joe Diver coming in off the street. In my particular case, getting free service on my DR regs at my shop because I'm staff does make it matter, but that's a special case. In general, it seems like Joe Diver should absolutely be basing his purchase decision on other factors than the money part of the equation.

My personal sense is that the Deep6 would have a little more broad appeal if they dropped the free service, free kits, and hard case and offered the regs for a lower cost. Offering the service kits as a very low cost add-on to a reg purchase would still be nice. Or maybe that doesn't make any sense. Maybe the cost of all those things only adds $10 to the price. Dropping them and lowering the price by $10 definitely would NOT make them more appealing than they are now. I don't know.

I wish @cerich would work out some deal with my shop to carry Deep6, so I felt like I could buy some regs and fins! Black fins and I think I'd be willing to just take a Sharpie to the orange on the regs. ;-)

 

[cerich]

My personal sense is that the Deep6 would have a little more broad appeal if they dropped the free service, free kits, and hard case and offered the regs for a lower cost. Offering the service kits as a very low cost add-on to a reg purchase would still be nice. Or maybe that doesn't make any sense. Maybe the cost of all those things only adds $10 to the price. Dropping them and lowering the price by $10 definitely would NOT make them more appealing than they are now. I don't know.

I wish @cerich would work out some deal with my shop to carry Deep6, so I felt like I could buy some regs and fins! Black fins and I think I'd be willing to just take a Sharpie to the orange on the regs. ;-)

To the first, that is basically the DGX by Deep 6 offering at Dive Gear Express.

To the second, don't have dealers and very few and select demo centers. Really have more demand by shops wanting to be demo centers than we have gear to do it right now! That falls under the "good problem" category

 

[LandonL]

My personal sense is that the Deep6 would have a little more broad appeal if they dropped the free service, free kits, and hard case and offered the regs for a lower cost.

This isn't our business model though. Trying to be the cheapest isn't what we are after, we are trying to provide the best collective service we can, at a good price point. The Signature regulator, is meant to be that, our signature offering. Honestly if the customer is only looking at the cost, regardless of service and benefits, it isn't the customer we are after.

If you are looking for a standard value oriented offering that is more budget friendly without all the added extras and service, then look towards the DGX by Deep 6 offering at Dive Gear Express. You can purchase a doubles setup there from $549.

I wish @cerich would work out some deal with my shop to carry Deep6, so I felt like I could buy some regs and fins! Black fins and I think I'd be willing to just take a Sharpie to the orange on the regs. ;-)

Your local shop, or even their instructors and other professionals, can apply to be affiliates, we will start expanding that group again soon. We currently have a backlog of people applying though, that we need to work through.

 

[ams511]

@stuartv I don't really understand your concern. You DM for a shop that is a DR dealer and you already have a set of XTs. In another thread (or maybe this one) you mentioned that your shop will likely service them for free. It seems pretty clear to me that Dive Rite is your best choice unless you are dissatisfied with them. Especially. if you can get keyman pricing or a discount for being your shop's dive master. As someone that collects regulators, it is a PITA to have to keep separate kits for each different model. My suggestion is to standardize.

@cerich A little friendly advice. If you are in an online business selling direct to customers your website is very important and should answer most customer questions and specify why a consumer should purchase your regulators over a more established brand. You don't need to trash anyone just spell out the advantages of your brand. For example, why are your coatings better? The DGX website spells out the difference between your signature (although they do not call them that) line and what they carry. Your website does not. Your description of your wing is laughable. You do not say want material the outer or inner shell is and you have one testimonial saying it is something else. Again, you are direct to consumer so these questions should be answered. I noticed the same thing when you were with HOG.

@LandonL I have no idea what your business model is, or the cost structure of your product. But I do know if someone buys another product you make nothing. Walmart does well catering to the low-price crowd, while other retailers are suffering badly. When I tell my students that Sears was once the largest retailer in the U.S. until they were surpassed by K-Mart, they look at me in disbelief. What happened to them and how did Walmart get so big?, price first and service second. I am not sure what service you are selling. It is a regulator, it should work, period. So what service do I need? How do you do it better than DRIS, LP, CA, DGX, or other reputable online shops? Also you may want to poll this, but I would think that most people do not look at servicing cost when purchasing a regulator. I would guess that budget is much more important. HOG caused a splash because they were significantly less expensive then other brands. Since they raised their prices several years ago I don't hear them mentioned as much anymore.

Every manufacturer/retailer is looking for that customer that values "something" over price. What is the percentage of these customers in the scuba marketplace? How are you going to attract these customers over more established competitors with deeper pockets? If that something is service then how are you going to compete against a competent dive shop?