The basic skills are all the same. As long as you are a competent diver I wouldn’t stress a number. I only cave dive once or twice a year for a few weeks max. Heck I took a 10 year break and was doing multi stage scooter dives on my first trip back. Only other diving is one or two vacation trips a year. Once you have the core skills it isn’t that difficult to hop back in it. My 14 year old only has 100 dives and breezed through an unofficial fundies course.
Realistic tec diving goals for a non-professional diver
- Thread starter ccrprospect
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
PfcAJ
Contributor
I'm not a dive professional, I dive around that 50 dives/yr mark, and I've been able to get to where I want to be as a cave/ tech diver.
I think you need to really consider what's motivating you. Why do you want to be a ccr cave diver? Physical skill is one thing, but mindset is another. What are you chasing? Accomplishment? Desire to explore? Knowing that "you can do it"? Attaining a high level of proficiency? A dream dive?
There's nothing wrong with any of that, but its something to really consider as you start down a lengthy, taxing, expensive, and honestly somewhat dangerous path.
tmassey
Contributor
This was one of the most difficult emotional issues I had with both diving and diving instructions. Until recently I was part of a family of 5 and I owned my own business. Despite having the world's best wife, you can imagine that free time to devote to SCUBA was not large. At one point, I was told by a technical instructor that unless I was able to dive three weekends out of four I would never be able to improve my capabilities to become a technical diver. And that wasn't happening: it would have been downright unfair to my family.
That was one of the most painful things I had ever heard. But it also turns out that it was not true.
To echo what others have said: 50 dives a year is not nothing. If used correctly, it *can* be enough to reach technical goals. But you have to decide why you're diving. 50 dives isn't enough to dive for pure enjoyment *and* dive for skill development. You're going to have to focus significantly on progress, and that tends to take away from enjoyment. In which case diving becomes much more of an "obligation" not a recreation.
The other thing that can make a big difference: how are your 50 dives spread out? 3-4 meaningful dives a month *every* month is different than 20 dives in a 10 day period twice a year. Living in Michigan, I used to go *months* between dives. It was not unusual to have maybe 3 dives between October and April (and those being 15 minute ice dives), and 50 dives from April to October, half of which were at 40' in a quarry. The long layoff made skill retention -- let alone progress -- more difficult. It wasn't until I was able to schedule a couple of winter trips that I was able to see more steady progress. And of course doing so also upped my number of dives per year closer to 70, which no doubt also helped!
Quality of training certainly helps, too. GUE Fundamentals revolutionized my diving -- and that was after TDI Full Cave. Practice doesn't make perfect: practice makes *permanent*, and only perfect practice makes perfect. When your dive time is limited, it's vital that you work hard to make every aspect of your dive as perfect as reasonable. For me, Fundies gave me that framework, and clearly demonstrated those expectations for me, ready to keep those expectations in front of me in the future.
Having said that, because of the limitations on my time, I do *not* engage in the stereotype of GUE divers: those that dive 50 times a year in a quarry exercising skills over and over and over... That means my progress is slowed: I still don't have a tech pass. But that's the price I pay to balance "obligation" and recreation.
So maybe that original statement *was* correct: you need to dive 3 weekends out of four to achieve near-perfection. I'm OK without near-perfection: our hobby is plenty safe enough without achieving near-perfection -- even for technical dives. But I've been able to achieve my short- and medium-term goals with a reasonable schedule, and I still work hard at improving my skills.
That was one of the most painful things I had ever heard. But it also turns out that it was not true.
To echo what others have said: 50 dives a year is not nothing. If used correctly, it *can* be enough to reach technical goals. But you have to decide why you're diving. 50 dives isn't enough to dive for pure enjoyment *and* dive for skill development. You're going to have to focus significantly on progress, and that tends to take away from enjoyment. In which case diving becomes much more of an "obligation" not a recreation.
The other thing that can make a big difference: how are your 50 dives spread out? 3-4 meaningful dives a month *every* month is different than 20 dives in a 10 day period twice a year. Living in Michigan, I used to go *months* between dives. It was not unusual to have maybe 3 dives between October and April (and those being 15 minute ice dives), and 50 dives from April to October, half of which were at 40' in a quarry. The long layoff made skill retention -- let alone progress -- more difficult. It wasn't until I was able to schedule a couple of winter trips that I was able to see more steady progress. And of course doing so also upped my number of dives per year closer to 70, which no doubt also helped!
Quality of training certainly helps, too. GUE Fundamentals revolutionized my diving -- and that was after TDI Full Cave. Practice doesn't make perfect: practice makes *permanent*, and only perfect practice makes perfect. When your dive time is limited, it's vital that you work hard to make every aspect of your dive as perfect as reasonable. For me, Fundies gave me that framework, and clearly demonstrated those expectations for me, ready to keep those expectations in front of me in the future.
Having said that, because of the limitations on my time, I do *not* engage in the stereotype of GUE divers: those that dive 50 times a year in a quarry exercising skills over and over and over... That means my progress is slowed: I still don't have a tech pass. But that's the price I pay to balance "obligation" and recreation.
So maybe that original statement *was* correct: you need to dive 3 weekends out of four to achieve near-perfection. I'm OK without near-perfection: our hobby is plenty safe enough without achieving near-perfection -- even for technical dives. But I've been able to achieve my short- and medium-term goals with a reasonable schedule, and I still work hard at improving my skills.
OP
ccrprospect
Contributor
I honestly can say that I am a more disciplined, “tougher”, and all around better person thanks to diving generally, and tec diving particularly. It gave me a cooler and more rational head when dealing with the inevitable #@&% that life throws. For me, challenge and skill mastery have little to do with ego, but rather I view it more as a journey of personal growth.
GF99/99
Contributor
A realistic goal for a non-professional in Tec diving is whatever you want it to be. Full CCR cave is not unrealistic at all.
I would say a majority of tec divers are non-professional. Most are just normal people that work regular non diving related jobs, etc. My self included. You do not need to be a dive professional to progress your diving skills.
I actually think not working in the diving industry allows you to advance your tec diving skills much further than those that are diving professionals especially if you want to go down the CC route (unless your a Tec instructor but that really is the 1% of professional in the diving industry) . Let me explain why. Lets take your very typical dive professional from "insert what ever acronym" agency. A young to middle age adult that visits Kho Tao decides to go zero to hero and becomes and OW instructor. Now yes they are diving 600+ dives a year but they are all DSD's and OW/AOW, and a handful of of rescue or DMT's. Usually after about a year they get interested in Tec diving and save up enough money to take ANDP then maybe do 5-10 Tec dive a year because that is all the can afford. And of that small percent a couple will save up for ER but very few will transition to CC. Lets face it your typical OW instructor getting paid just enough to cover rent, food and beer, is not going to be buying a rebreather plus training any time soon.
So in my opinion your typical dive profession (key word there being typical, yes I know there are exceptions especially if you work as a Tec diving professional ) does not have the time, resources, and especially funding to advance there Tec diving skills as much as a normal average Joe.
I have lots and lots and lots of friends that are dive professional and all of them would love to take ANDP but its just hard for them a couple have done ANDP and a few ER but that's it. I on the other hand I am just an average Engineer with a regular job, not a diving professional, the farthest I got up the PADI chain was AOW. But because I work a normal job and have the funding and free time I am able to progress my Tec skills to OC advanced Trimix and CC advanced mixed gas diver. Just last year with all my free time during COVID i was able to smashed out about 20 or so sub 100 meter dives.
barth
Contributor
In the past I did a lot of training dives in lakes. I was diving in lakes at least once a week.
After CCR training I sold my oc equipment. I wanted to do 100 hours on my rebreather in a year. That wouldn’t be possible if I would dive oc + cc.
I decided to do dive at least one Saturday/Sunday in every 2 weekends. That would be diving in a mine or Northsea. Just a fun dive (deco and/or overhead).
I try to dive one evening or afternoon a week. That’s not always possible. That would be a dive in a lake for fun and skill training.
(I want to do 2 x 7 day dive trips a year. Last year it wasn’t possible because of Covid. That could be the same for this year)
For me 50 dives a year would be enough for tech and/or cave diving. But you should understand that one day of diving is just one dive. Tech/cave dives take a lot more time. Preparing and cleaning a rebreather also takes a lot of time.
I would sell my rebreather if I could only dive one weekend a month. I would still dive, but it would be oc diving. After one year and 117 hours on my JJ my skills are still not as good as they were when oc diving...
After CCR training I sold my oc equipment. I wanted to do 100 hours on my rebreather in a year. That wouldn’t be possible if I would dive oc + cc.
I decided to do dive at least one Saturday/Sunday in every 2 weekends. That would be diving in a mine or Northsea. Just a fun dive (deco and/or overhead).
I try to dive one evening or afternoon a week. That’s not always possible. That would be a dive in a lake for fun and skill training.
(I want to do 2 x 7 day dive trips a year. Last year it wasn’t possible because of Covid. That could be the same for this year)
For me 50 dives a year would be enough for tech and/or cave diving. But you should understand that one day of diving is just one dive. Tech/cave dives take a lot more time. Preparing and cleaning a rebreather also takes a lot of time.
I would sell my rebreather if I could only dive one weekend a month. I would still dive, but it would be oc diving. After one year and 117 hours on my JJ my skills are still not as good as they were when oc diving...
tmassey
Contributor
I feel this personally. Tech diving is really screwing with my dive count. In the past, I could do two typical two tank dive trips in a day. That would be four dives, and maybe a bottom time of between two and three hours, assuming two “wreck and reef“ trips. Double dip wreck trips would be even less time.
Today, even as a baby cave diver, I can do a two hour cave dive on a single set of back mount doubles. Very similar bottom time, 1/4 as many dives for the dive log!
it really is about the bottom time and the different/greater experience, but it does screw up the statistics.That, in a nutshell, is why I stay open circuit. In a good year, I can’t see doing more than four or five 200 foot dives per year. I can afford the trimix for such dives. And not needing to spend extensive time on set up, teardown, maintenance, etc. alone is enough to keep me on open circuit, never mind the $10,000 upfront equipment and training cost, and the need to very regularly maintain closed circuit awareness.
Sometimes I regret it when I hear people talking about the cool capabilities that their CCR gives them. But I also enjoy the times when I am ready to relax with a beverage at the end of the day, and they’re still messing with their rig.
lermontov
Contributor
Divers keep saying that but its really not that bad - its a hobby, if you were a professional youd get weary of it but if your a professional youd get tired of doing it on OC too. The only time ive thought im sick of this ccr is when im trying to gear up in rough seas and ive got 50kg-60kg of gear on.
PfcAJ
Contributor
Not that bad. Just mild to moderately bad.
I feel this personally. Tech diving is really screwing with my dive count. In the past, I could do two typical two tank dive trips in a day. That would be four dives, and maybe a bottom time of between two and three hours, assuming two “wreck and reef“ trips. Double dip wreck trips would be even less time.
Today, even as a baby cave diver, I can do a two hour cave dive on a single set of back mount doubles. Very similar bottom time, 1/4 as many dives for the dive log!
That, in a nutshell, is why I stay open circuit. In a good year, I can’t see doing more than four or five 200 foot dives per year. I can afford the trimix for such dives. And not needing to spend extensive time on set up, teardown, maintenance, etc. alone is enough to keep me on open circuit, never mind the $10,000 upfront equipment and training cost, and the need to very regularly maintain closed circuit awareness.
Sometimes I regret it when I hear people talking about the cool capabilities that their CCR gives them. But I also enjoy the times when I am ready to relax with a beverage at the end of the day, and they’re still messing with their rig.
diving ccr isn’t really that big of a deal though I’m sure it depends on the unit. But setup and breakdown isn’t bad. I have my own fill station. Now that I dive ccr ai rarely have to fill a bottle other than oxygen. So the 30 minutes to prep my unit offsets the 30 minutes it took to fill bottles for oc. So to me it’s a wash.
Similar threads
