Ready to buy first underwater digital camera, need help

[rjsimp]

Unless Sea & Sea has changed from its earlier cameras, it uses Ricoh cameras which are not very good. I would put any one of the better cameras made by Olympus, Nikon, or Canon against them. There's a reason you don't see Ricoh cameras on the shelves at the store competing with the other more popular brands.

You pay an awful lot for the S&S compared to getting a quality camera from one of the other manufacturers with a good housing. You'll end up with a much better system with better quality IMHO.

 

[hammerhead man]

I own the DX-1G and am very happy with it. Sea&Sea is coming out with the DX-2G this spring and it sounds very good. here is a link to a discussion I started about the 2G http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/sea-sea/258639-new-dx-2g.html. I used the DX-1G for a recent Egypt trip and was very happy with both above water and underwater photos. You can email me at jamescrew6@verizon.net if you want additional information.

Regards,

Bill

 

[rjsimp]

Interesting on the Ricoh camera used in the DX-2G.. I'll be interested to see some pictures from it underwater, but if they can solve the noise then maybe it is worth looking at. The fact that is has a hot shoe though is really a shame if Sea & Sea can't take advantage of that and make it at least fire the strobe manually, but even better would be TTL as an option.

With a camera price of $550 and sea & sea's price increase for their package.. I wonder what this will come in at. $550 is in the range of entry level SLR cameras like the E-520 which I would bet has better features. So it really comes down to the housing cost and of course size.

 

[hammerhead man]

My guess is that the package for housing and camera will be about $1000; however, you might find it cheaper online. Regarding your comment about the price point of the Ricoh being close to the price of a DSLR, my experience is that the major expense for an underwater system using a DSLR is not the camera but all the accessories that you have to buy for the camera. My daughter has an underwater setup for a DSLR and the cost to get it setup for underwater was 5-6 times the cost of the camera (housing, strobe, arm, etc.)

What I like about the DX-1G is that it is a very compact, light camera. The cost for a complete setup is less than half the cost of a DSLR setup. It is capable of producing great pics. Here are some by Eskasi Sea & Sea DX-1G in Sipadan, Mabul & Kapalai (Malaysia) shown is a previous post on scuba board. I think that they are outstanding. Sigh, I know that you are very concerned about noise but as I pointed out in my last post on this subject, I thought that both of the pictures you displayed were fantastic even though you pointed out that the 8000G pic had noise.

Just my thoughts.

Regards,

Bill

 

[hammerhead man]

Sigh, the link to Eskasi's pictures did not work. Here it is again, http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/un...sea-dx-1g-sipadan-mabul-kapalai-malaysia.html. Hope this works.

Regards,

Bill

 

[PCBCaptChris]

I have one of these cameras with the waterproof housing the company manufactures: Stylus 770 SW The benefit of this camera is when you flood it, it is entirely waterproof. Meaning a little humidity inside of the housing will not destroy it. You can get away with the camera and housing for $500.

I first saw this camera at DEMA in Orlando with a quarter-like peg board with water at the bottom. They would drop the camera through the board and into the water below. When the salesman went to hand the camera to me he intentionally dropped it as a sales technique.

As far as a strobe, it has to be separated from the camera, to avoid lighting up all the small particulate (backscatter) in the water. All of this apparatus and the strobe itself are very expensive. I'd say skip it on your first camera. It increases the quality of photos... but I'd just get experience moving about with a camera first. This camera has given me great results.

 

[rjsimp]

Sigh, the link to Eskasi's pictures did not work. Here it is again, http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/un...sea-dx-1g-sipadan-mabul-kapalai-malaysia.html. Hope this works.

Regards,

Bill

That's good that you like the DX-1G.. I have seen hundreds if not thousands shot with Sea & Sea P&S cameras of various models and they all have the same problem to various degrees.. Noise.. I know you don't see it or consider it a problem, but the same pictures could look so much better without it.. Even in the ones you linked to, the turtle shots are really noisy and could look much nicer if shot with a camera that had a better sensor.

Here's a good test for ANY camera that you are considering. Take a black piece of construction paper. Put the camera on on a shutter speed of 30 seconds or so. (Bulb if you need to). Put the black piece of paper in front of the lense to not allow any light in there and put the camera in manual mode to keep the ISO set to the lowest number (should be the cleanest).

Take the picture and look at it. If you see lots of noise in the black picture, the sensor is noisy. Look at the same picture using different ISO settings. When the picture is showing significant noise, the previous ISO setting should be your max that you use.

Please do this for me Hammerhead with your camera and either PM me the pictures or post them. I like to comapre cameras this way and I always have people asking me why they have that in their pictures.

Thanks!

 

[Eskasi]

Hi rjsimp (and hey Bill!),

I have to say that the DX-1G is no DSLR for sure....however, IF exposre is right, the DX-1G does not suffer too badly from noise....any major noise issue if showing of course can be fixed in PP....

The really noisy shots in that link were taken at really bad exposures and with an attempt to salvage later on (I also had very little experience in PP at that time)..... I am embarresed to see those at this point but that was taken with my first few attempts at using a camera UW and probably at dive number 60. I am just at dive 120 now and now with 30hrs of DSLR use UW.... I have much to learn

Having said that, topside, the Ricoh GX100 (1G) has won camera of the year awards and smartly beat much of the PnS shooters out there. I did research the camera's potential before jumping in (or I would have bought a G7 at that time instead). Landscape shots with this camera is amazing as is the ease of use of full manual controls. In fact, the Ricoh GX100 is a leap ahead of it's predecessors...

let me dig through some of the old photos and see if I can get a decent example and link via flickr.... I must admit though that if exposure is off, noise creeps in exponentially and is very visible. I put that down to knowing your gear well and its limitations. My D300 is FAR more forgiving in that sense

*Edit*
I dould not find my RAWs for much of my UW shots.... I did have this Tiff file which has been run through Noise Ninja and with a slight unsharp mask after.....

Here is another incredible photo taken with a GX100 on some kinda kite rig! I found it on Flickr and linked to the photo. A google (or search on flickr) of the GX100 will show how good a camera it actually is. I must say that I have no other experience with any other Sea and Sea PnS....

Having said all that, I love my D300 and it is indeed the low noise king (for cropped sensor DSLR cameras of course!)

See what I mean?

D300 & Tokina, 10-17 Fisheye

 

[Eskasi]

And here is that 30 sec test with the black card.....link to full exif data is here on the flickr site. I just used the jpeg generated but there is a RAW copy too. The camera does both... This must be the first all black and blank photo I have posted! Lol!

Flickr: More detail about M0012557

 

[rjsimp]

Eskasi,

Very nice pictures!

Can you pm me the raw file? I wanted one that wasn't "shrunk" and the raw file needs the exposure set up high on it.. sorry, I didn't provide that detail, but the other thing I forgot to mention is you need to turn off the "noise control' if it was on. Even with it on though, you can see with/without so they would be good to look at. Basically I am trying to get a 100% image and need to boost the exposure up to where the black looks gray..

Thanks!