Questions regarding eSCR

[KevinNM]

Shane Thompson died on a KISS unit next to Mike Young and there's been no civil suit. Much ado about nothing.

I have the death report for that case from the NM Office of the Medical Investigator and it pretty much sounded like CO2 overload once things went horribly sideways.

 

[rjack321]

I have the death report for that case from the NM Office of the Medical Investigator and it pretty much sounded like CO2 overload once things went horribly sideways.

do you remember what unit he was diving?

 

[W W Meixner]

Shane Thompson died on a KISS unit next to Mike Young and there's been no civil suit. Much ado about nothing.

What PO2 drop are you seeing at 40m on 40%? OC that would be a PO2 of 2.0, which is sketchy af for the working portion of a dive, even for deco. you'd have to have a loop FO2 of 32% for that to be even a 1.6 at 40m. Are you actually seeing an 8% FO2 drop in the loop with 40% in the cylinder and the 40 orifice?

Hey Johnny...

At 40 m with a 40% orifice...and 32% mix which inspires down to 28/29...my PO2 with normal breathing rate is approx .9/1.1...

That's cold water in Georgian Bay...on wrecks like the Arabia...Forest City...and Niagara II...with approx 30 minutes bottom time...two short deco's...

With the Ray...I dive with a 30 and sling a 30...with the 5400...I dive with a 50...and an integrated 20...the 50 is ''large for the unit''...but gives me lots of duration without switching out tanks...on an average 130 ft Georgian Bay dive...with 30 minutes duration...plus stops...with the 3000 PSI 50 cu ft tank...I average approx 900 PSI per dive...

I use neoprene blankets on the scrubbers...and use Dragersorb 400...which is readily available locally...and performs very well...

Beats the hell out of slugging doubles...which I did for years...and effective as any CCR at my desired depths and bottom times...

Best...

Warren

 

[JohnnyC]

Hey Johnny...

At 40 m with a 40% orifice...and 32% mix which inspires down to 28/29...my PO2 with normal breathing rate is approx .9/1.1...

Huh? That doesn't make sense. At 40m, diving EAN40, you're saying your loop PO2 is .9-1.1? Unpossible. Literally. Physics and practicality both say that's not going to happen.

Are you actually diving with EAN32 but use the 40 orifice? If so, that's a really important distinction you need to make....

do you remember what unit he was diving?

I want to say it was a Spirit of some sort, Orca, possibly modified? I don't remember off the top of my head.

 

[KevinNM]

do you remember what unit he was diving?

I’ll have to check at home. But they didn’t recover the unit, they had enough trouble pulling him out of the narrow passage he got himself wedged in.

 

[W W Meixner]

Johnny...

I never said I was diving 40% EAN at 40 m...you did...40 % EAN @ 1.4 = 82.5' MOD...

In the last post I stated 32% EAN...which your normal breathing will drop down a few points...

You can dive the 32% orifice at 40 m with 32% EAN...but I find the larger orifice hole in the 32% jet flows far too much gas...even with the OPV fully open it almost blows the DSV out of your mouth...

Best...

Warren

 

[JohnnyC]

I never said I was diving 40% EAN at 40 m...you did...40 % EAN @ 1.4 = 82.5' MOD...

In the last post I stated 32% EAN...which your normal breathing will drop down a few points...

Here's what you said:

rjack...
The Ray works fine at 40 m with the 50% orifice/bypass cup replaced with a 40% cup...and slinging off-board bailout...for cold water...changing out the Drager Shark open spring chamber 1st stage with a good sealed diaphragm 1st stage with the IP adjusted to 10.5 BAR...helps greatly...I use a ''Deep Six''...

I just wanted to make sure you weren't actually advocating diving 40 at 40m since you didn't specify the gas used. Since you didn't qualify why you would be using a different gas with a different orifice, it's not a stretch to imagine that you were using the gas matched to the orifice, in this case in a seriously unsafe manner. Considering the original poster does not seem to have any real experience with rebreathers, certainly not enough to question it, a little prudence would go a long way to making sure it's apparent that you're not advocating unsafe behavior.

 

[W W Meixner]

Johnny...

Using gas blends with gases other than the gases matched to Drager mass flow orifices is part of the training details on the Drager units...

A student taking training on a Drager SCR will learn this...

These posts are not intended to replace or detail any information contained in any training program...

It was your initial negative statement that indicated a Drager Ray cannot be used at 40 meters...this statement is incorrect...with the correct mass flow orifice deeper depths are obtainable...gas mix differs based on MOD...you'll learn all this after you've logged a few more dives...

Your profile photo and profile details indicates you are a rebreather diver with 24 total dives logged...maybe to expand your knowledge you may want to consider a Drager SCR course...I'd suggest starting out with ''Ray'' training...I'd be happy to loan you mine...

Best...

Warren...

 

[JohnnyC]

Johnny...

Using gas blends with gases other than the gases matched to Drager mass flow orifices is part of the training details on the Drager units...

A student taking training on a Drager SCR will learn this...

These posts are not intended to replace or detail any information contained in any training program...

It was your initial negative statement that indicated a Drager Ray cannot be used at 40 meters...this statement is incorrect...with the correct mass flow orifice deeper depths are obtainable...gas mix differs based on MOD...you'll learn all this after you've logged a few more dives...

Your profile photo and profile details indicates you are a rebreather diver with 24 total dives logged...maybe to expand your knowledge you may want to consider a Drager SCR course...I'd suggest starting out with ''Ray'' training...I'd be happy to loan you mine...

Best...

Warren...

I said nothing negative about a Drager Ray going to 40m, that was rjack, but either way....

My profile photo is not a rebreather, it's a double hose regulator (I would have thought that someone so well versed in rebreather diving would have noticed that). I'm certified on 3 separate rebreathers, have dived a half dozen more, and provided your dive count is truthful (I'm fully aware that mine is not), I have many more dives than you. My typical rebreather dives are 4-8 hours in complex cave, some with substantial deco obligations, no "entry level tech" here. You were also completely ignorant of the KISS adaptation to the Hollis unit, and yet felt the need to make a pretty definitive statement regarding its existence. So now that we've rectified YOUR incorrect statements.....

Your post in response to rjack (again, I don't care what you do personally with your toy, as long as you don't advocate dangerous behavior) could be easily taken to assume that you advocated diving an SCR with the gas matched to the orifice, to the OP who has already demonstrated confusion about the issue at hand. You should have qualified your statement better. End of story.

Might I call your attention to your own post in a different thread, and suggest you take your own advice:

I'm also a rebreather diver...I wouldn't even think of getting into deep detailed rebreather discussions because there are so many out there who are far more experienced and proficient than I am...

Never discard constructive criticism...and do your best not to over-comment on your knowledge and experience...because your mistakes and mis-information will trip you up every time...

 

[JohnnyC]

There are plenty of people around here that can verify my credentials. On the other hand, I've received some interesting PM's from several people about you. Suffice it to say, I'm fully convinced that you have several problems, not the least of which relates to honesty. I tell people that my "dive log" count is a lie, and I don't present myself as anything other than I am. You, on the other hand, seem to have some problems doing the same. Not the least of which is offering ambiguous information in an effort to sound like you have some form of expertise.

Have a great day, and dive safe!