Question regarding doubles

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Crass3000

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I have a question about using doubles. Assuming I have a typical doubles setup with a manifold in the middle of the tow tank valves and I have a free-flow on one side. I assume the usual response would be to turn the air off using the tank valve on that side. Thus I would not be able to use the air on that side.

What if I put an inline on/off valve that would likely be put right before the free-flowing second stage. Would this effectively stop the free-flow so that I would not have to turn the tank off on the side on the manifold that is free-flowing? With the inline device, turned off, stop the free-flow on that side so that I could still use the air in both tanks?

For the sake of this question, assume I had a pony so I still would have redundancy.
 
The point of a manifold is so that you still have access to the gas in BOTH tanks. You just wont have a regulator (and whatever else is on the side shut off).

How would a "inline" shut off stop a 1st stage failure?

The point of manifold doubles IS redundancy. Once you have a failure that requires you to shut off a side and leave it off it is time to end the dive.

Here are a couple links with some info to get you started,

Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers

BAUE Valve Drills
 
How would a "inline" shut off stop a 1st stage failure?
Well my question is whether it would. Assuming you only have an SPG on the HP port and the 2nd stage on a LP port, will the inline shut off stop the gas that is being drained out of the 2nd stage? Thus sort of nullifying the first stage free-flow and allowing you to still use all the gas because you don't have to shut off the tank valve connected to the free-flowing first stage. I was hoping this would stop the free-flow so you could keep manifold open and keep using both tanks of gas.

Again.... assume I had a pony bottle so that I still had redundancy in case the other first stage started to free-flow.
 
Did you read post #2?

if you have a freeflow you shut of that post (tank valve) You will still have access to ALL your gas in both tanks from the other reg.
That's what I initially thought until a few days ago. Thanks for the clarification that I missed in post #2. I spoke with a technical instructor who must not have understood what I meant. He told me I would only have access to the gas in the one tank if I turned the tank valve off.
 
If the first stage had a failure and the interstate pressure was rising causing the second stage to free flow by shutting of the shutoff valve you could potentially save all the gas but you could also be setting yourself up for something worse.... Like if you have an environmental rubber seal which could explode under that extreme pressure or the hose could rupture depending on how bad the pressure gets in the hose.

The best option would be to shut off the tank valve.
 
I think there's something lost in translation. The first stage regulator is attached to your tank valve, if air comes out of this device, you've reached the turn point in your dive. Losing gas through a HP port (i.e. SPG) is certainly inconvenient, but it's not the one I'm too concerned about. You should be concerned about a LP leak, as the LP leak is going to drain the gas much quicker. From studying the very hard to understand question, I've deduced the following:

I think what you really meant to ask is, "Should I put an inline shutoff on my 2nd stage regulators so that I don't have to close valves in the event of a free flowing regulator?" It is possible you might have seen someone do this who is a super-advanced awesomey diver. In fact, I might have been spotted doing it once or twice...but not with doubles. The only real [accepted] reason to rig your hoses this way is someone diving a rebreather who is using only onboard diluent with a regulator attached to the diluent bottle. You'd do this to preserve diluient which is doubling as bailout gas to an OC regulator on relative shallow dives, say 100ft or less maybe.

In your case there's absolutely no reason to add the inline shutoff valves because doubles already give you a satisfactory and positive way to preserve gas, and get to the entire volume of gas assuming you haven't extruded an o-ring at the tank neck (rare).

Try getting with a qualified technical instructor on this topic. I'm not sure you understand the exact failure modes/responses for various conditions in doubles. Some might even argue the pony bottle and the inline shutoff valves gives you too many avialable options and therefore Hick's Law (too many possibilies) might prevent your success. The only reason I can see for carrying a pony bottle with doubles is lack of understanding of your primary diving equipment. Say you grab your secondary and there's no gas, which problem do you need to solve the inline shutoff you can't see or the valve you can't see? The cave guys (much as myself) will quickly point out you've also managed to create another joint which is another failure point.

The transition to doubles does take a bit of time. Don't be fooled into thinking it's all about buoyancy. By the time you get to doubles, you should know how to compensate for a bunch of weight on your back. The proficient diver in doubles is fully self sufficient, and can assist a teammate without hestiation.

If you need deco/travel/stage gas, that's obviously a different issue.
 
Thanks. What are the inline shut-off valves made for then?

To isolate an ADV for a rebreather or to isolate gas. Not to manage a problem IMO.
 
Thanks... I believe I understand completely now. The only reason I brought up the pony was because I assumed if I didn't say I had a pony the only response would be stop the dive and ascend which wouldn't really answer the question.

Thanks for all your help!!!
 

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