Question on the legal end of accidents

[DiveBandit]

Hello all,
I recently had a chat with a commercial dive boat owner/operator about releases. She asked me if I make my friends sign releases before we go out on my boat. I looked at her funny and said "of course not, why would I do that" The lady strongly suggested I get a release form and make them sign it even though I'm not a commercial operation and I just take a few friends out from time to time. The Capt. went into all the reasons you could get sue's even thought they are just friends, not customers, etc. Then I had to leave so I didn't get much more info than that. I was wondering though.

1.) has anyone ever heard of someone getting sued by friends for an injury off a private boat resulting from a diving acident?

2.) does a release exist that is worded for a private boat taking friends out diving?

3.) If I decided to use such a thing, how do you suddenly tell all you're friends, hey, you can't dive with me anymore unless you sign this everytime we go out?

Thanks for the input.

Dave.

 

[The Kraken]

Dave,

I wouldn't be concerned about it. You are not chartering a dive, planning the dive for a group or any such activity as that. You simply are providing a means of conveyance between the shore and a dive site.

An analogy would be if you were to take a bunch of guys hunting in your SUV. If one hunter was accidentally shot during the hunt, would you be held liable . . . don't think so.

the K

 

[rigdiver]

Dave;
If someone dies or is injured you could be sued. Maybe they will not win, but it will cause you so much grief you'll wish you had a signed waiver. I have friends that own boats and make their friends sign releases. I don't have a problem signing it. Let a lawyer waive money under someone's nose and it will change friendships. CYA buddy. Ask you attorney to draw you up a waiver.
Bill

 

[The Kraken]

In my response I was referring specifically to the dive itself.

Now, if someone is injured as a defect of the boat or its operation, that's another matter.

the K

 

[chasanova]

An analogy would be if you were to take a bunch of guys hunting in your SUV. If one hunter was accidentally shot during the hunt, would you be held liable . . . don't think so.

free advice may be worth what you pay for it.
When the surviving family of an accident victim hires a lawyer, then they start looking for opportunities to blame those with deep pockets, assets or insurance. If you are negligent to a signficant degree, you will likely not obtain protection from the waiver anyway, but it does help in clarifying that your friends have acknoledged that they are undertaking a dangerous activity based on thier own judgement.

Consult a lawyer with knowledge in libility issues.

 

[Diver0001]

Hello all,
I recently had a chat with a commercial dive boat owner/operator about releases. She asked me if I make my friends sign releases before we go out on my boat. I looked at her funny and said "of course not, why would I do that" The lady strongly suggested I get a release form and make them sign it even though I'm not a commercial operation and I just take a few friends out from time to time. The Capt. went into all the reasons you could get sue's even thought they are just friends, not customers, etc. Then I had to leave so I didn't get much more info than that. I was wondering though.

1.) has anyone ever heard of someone getting sued by friends for an injury off a private boat resulting from a diving acident?

2.) does a release exist that is worded for a private boat taking friends out diving?

3.) If I decided to use such a thing, how do you suddenly tell all you're friends, hey, you can't dive with me anymore unless you sign this everytime we go out?

Thanks for the input.

Dave.

You probably don't have to worry about your friends as much as about your friends' families... I think the reality is that waiver or no waiver, if someone gets killed on your boat be prepared for their legal heirs to trying cutting your heart out, either for revenge or to try milking a bad situation for everything it's worth...

And with that in mind, act accordingly.

R..

 

[SmokinReefer]

You probably don't have to worry about your friends as much as about your friends' families... I think the reality is that waiver or no waiver, if someone gets killed on your boat be prepared for their legal heirs to trying cutting your heart out, either for revenge or to try milking a bad situation for everything it's worth...

Like he said, waiver or no waiver, it's going to court. My wife and I sign waivers all the time. As soon as she signs one, she always says "So what, you can still sue the pants off them. Waivers don't mean crap. Waiver aren't worth the time or trouble...."

And she's a lawyer. She even says contracts aren't even all that good if you're armed with a good attorney.

Waivers are a CYA sort of thing, but in the end they usually don't really cover much at all, if anything. People still have all their rights, even if they sign one. It's the greedy people (and attorneys) that are the problem. Just like Diver0001 said, they will go for the heart, even if it was their fault......

I used to think it was attorneys creating the litigation problem in this country. While I'm still not fond of attorneys (except for one in particular), it's the greedy people who are really to blame.

Smokin

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You probably don't have to worry about your friends as much as about your friends' families... I think the reality is that waiver or no waiver, if someone gets killed on your boat be prepared for their legal heirs to trying cutting your heart out, either for revenge or to try milking a bad situation for everything it's worth...

And with that in mind, act accordingly.

R..

That is exactly correct. I had the unfortunate opportunity to recover a friends dead body after we became separated on a dive. Everyone on the boat had the mindset that our dead friend would never sue us. Which is true, but his family may well find it unfathomable that a super experienced diver gets killed on an "easy" dive, and they will naturally try to blame someone other than their dead family member. If someone wants me to sign a waiver, I am not offended at all.

Oh Yeah, I think the family ended up with at least $100,000 from the capt, even though the accident was unrelated to operation of the vessel.

 

[H2Andy]

1.) has anyone ever heard of someone getting sued by friends for an injury off a private boat resulting from a diving acident?

yes. there was a dive buddy (I forget the state) who was found negligent in carrying out her duties as a buddy.

if you have a duty to a diver who gets hurt, and you breached that duty, and that resulted in him getting hurt, you can be sued.

unfortunately, anyone can sue anyone these days.

fortunately, unless you have significant assets, no personal injury lawyer is going to come after you (you can't get blood from a stone).

2.) does a release exist that is worded for a private boat taking friends out diving?

easiest thing to do is go to a dive shop in your area, get their release, and change it so that you are the one being released (also make sure you change it to reflect you are a private individual doing this for fun, not profit).

if i had to defend with or without a waiver, i'd pick a waiver every single time. it can be a very powerful tool.

3.) If I decided to use such a thing, how do you suddenly tell all you're friends, hey, you can't dive with me anymore unless you sign this everytime we go out?

it's up to you. i'd chuckle and aw-chucks and say, "Guys, sorry about this, but my lawyer is making me do this." or something to that effect :10:

this is not intended as legal advice. please consult an attorney in your area qualified to practice in this area of the law.

 

[WesTexDiver]

After working in Law Enforcement for several years I can tell you that a waiver is generally not worth the paper it is written on. Unless you have a "notary public" with you and a witness and do all the legal signing it's just not worth anything in court.

Think of it this way...If you do something grossly negligent that any "prudent person" would consider negligent, then you are responsible both civily and legaly, regardless of a waiver being signed or not.

Another way to look at this....If you don't do anything wrong, then how can a jury of your peers find you guilty of something? "Well your honor he did offer him a boat ride!"
Taking someone to court and trying to sue does not mean you will win. You may be taken to court for anything, this is meerly a technicality.

Another for instance.

If you make a group of people sign waivers releasing you from " all " liability and then run your boat into a break wall or levy and get everyone but yourself killed, then sure you are still responsible for them, the waiver signed does not release you from doing malicious acts or free you from some responsibility for your guests.

Waivers give some commercial operators a piece of mind, and some insurance companies require that you have your guests or patrons sign a waiver. As far as friends on a private boat I say...Hogwash.