Question for instructors...

[sharkmasterbc]

Just curious...here's the situation...
You (the instructor) are evaluating a students skills and all of a sudden he/she wants to bolt to the surface (you are in say 15-30 fsw). What do you do next...1.) Hold onto the student and slow their ascent as much as possible without risking your own safety or 2.) Hold the student on the bottom (or at depth), hold their reg in and try to calm them down ?
For fun lets say vis is about 10 ft and you have a cert DM on the bottom with your other 2 students.
Comments...

 

[Rick Murchison]

Each situation is different. Usually a bolter will give signals early enough that you can arrest the sequence before the bolt. But sometimes you can't. In the event a student bolts I grab them and resist the rise enough to keep the ascent under control, hold the reg in their mouth (or replace it with mine - or at least try to - if they've rejected it), purge the reg, and make sure some exhaling's happening on the way up. Sometimes that takes a jab in the belly, but that's a last resort.
Rick

 

[Walter]

I agree with Rick, but I'd add I wouldn't have 3 students in 10 ft of viz even with a DM. I would take them in 10 ft of viz only as a last resort. If I did, it would be one on one.

 

[padiscubapro]

Walter once bubbled...
I agree with Rick, but I'd add I wouldn't have 3 students in 10 ft of viz even with a DM. I would take them in 10 ft of viz only as a last resort. If I did, it would be one on one.

You clear water guys are spoiled..

Most of us up here are happy if we get 10 fot of viz....
It just takes a bit of getting used to a planning to teach in lower viz.. I'll do groups of two as the norm... up to 4 with a DM..

I remeber the first class I taught.. I had 2 students 5ft or less at times was pretty much the norm... It was basically the equivalent of a night dive once you broke 20 fsw, except the flashlights didnt go very far...

In limited viz contact and buddylines become important... on the plus side you are never too far away to take immediate action..

 

[Padipro]

I would do the same as the others have mentioned above. In fact, I have done exactly that. It doesn't happen often but every now and then you'll get a student that panics and bolts. Personally, I would never try to hold someone down and stop them from making an ascent if that's what they were trying to do. I'd do my best to control it and prevent anyone from getting hurt. Once on the surface I'd instruct them to inflate their BC, or do it for them if they failed to do it, and find out what caused them to bolt. I'd try and calm them down, descend and start over.

Just curious but is there a reason that you asked this question?

Scott

 

[sharkmasterbc]

The reason I have asked this question is because I had an argument with another Padi Pro. not too long ago and for some reason he/she took the stand that you should hold the student on the bottom...I totally disagreed but was just curious as to what others thought.
I have had this happen to me numerous times and I always try and slow the "bolters" ascent to a safe rate. Once we reach the surface then I try to calm the person down and see if they want to try again. I think by holding someone down you will prob make the panic worse and that person will probably never get into the water with you again for fear of being held underwater...

 

[IndigoBlue]

sharkmasterbc once bubbled...
The reason I have asked this question is because I had an argument with another Padi Pro. not too long ago and for some reason he/she took the stand that you should hold the student on the bottom...I totally disagreed but was just curious as to what others thought.
I have had this happen to me numerous times and I always try and slow the "bolters" ascent to a safe rate. Once we reach the surface then I try to calm the person down and see if they want to try again. I think by holding someone down you will prob make the panic worse and that person will probably never get into the water with you again for fear of being held underwater...

I have watched an instructor hold a student down, when I was a D/M. The instructor got control of the student, got the student to put the reg back into her mouth, got her to start breathing properly, then took her to the surface gently. Needless to say getting her to put her mask back on at depth was probably out of the question at this time. She held it in her hand as she ascended, and never once tried to put it back on herself.

Now that I teach, I make good and sure that the students spend a lot of time in the 4 ft shallow end of the pool practicing mask clearing and regulator purging, so that they will not be inclined to panic in the deep end of the pool nor in the 15 to 20 ft depth of the open water where we perform these drills.

I have never had a problem myself with students bolting. I believe it is because I spend a lot of time with them shallow first. Prophylaxis early trumps prophylaxis late every time.

You never know when a student is going to panic however. The signs are sometimes there and sometimes not. Maybe they are having a bad day, and the cumulative weight of their personal life plus the drive in traffic to the dive site plus what to them is task loading on scuba has gotten to them.

Having said all that, I was taught in my ITC that if a student is holding their breath, you cannot let them ascend to the surface from any depth. And if they are breathing properly, you should not prevent them from going up. You may have been taught differently. I watch for bubbles.

Hope that answers your question. You will need to confer with your course director and re-read your instructor standards to answer this question specifically for yourself (PADI). Sounds like there is some doubt in your mind, and there should not be.

 

[Diver0001]

sharkmasterbc once bubbled...
Just curious...here's the situation...
You (the instructor) are evaluating a students skills and all of a sudden he/she wants to bolt to the surface (you are in say 15-30 fsw). What do you do next...1.) Hold onto the student and slow their ascent as much as possible without risking your own safety or 2.) Hold the student on the bottom (or at depth), hold their reg in and try to calm them down ?
For fun lets say vis is about 10 ft and you have a cert DM on the bottom with your other 2 students.
Comments...

The answer depends on the bubbles.

If you're seeing bubbles you have a failure but not a disaster. If you're not seeing bubble then it's a matter of life and death.

Been there. Done that. Never want to be there or do that again. It's all about the bubbles.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

Walter once bubbled...
I agree with Rick, but I'd add I wouldn't have 3 students in 10 ft of viz even with a DM. I would take them in 10 ft of viz only as a last resort. If I did, it would be one on one.

Where I live 10ft of viz (or less) is the norm. you get used to it. We can lead 6 students with 2DM's and 1inst in these conditions.

R..

 

[Belushi]

Assuming we are doing mask removal and replacement.
we have 4 students + 1 DM
the two students on your left have done ok, so the DM is behind them.
you have the nervous student by the straps at the front of the bcd, and you give the signal to remove and replace the mask.
The eyes go big, the breathing rate increases, and the student takes a big breath and off comes the mask in a fit of bravado.
Then they realise this was a BAD idea, and stop breathing or breathe in through the nose, and then at this point the muscles tense up and you have a potential bolter.
So, hold onto the front of the bcd with one hand and use your two fingers on the other hand to block off their nose, they then have to breathe through their mouth. Once they realise they can breathe, then they relax somewhat.

Then you can release the straps of the bcd and have complete control of them, by the nose, intimate that they should put the mask back on by taking the hand that holds the mask and moving it to their face, then they are still gaining more control with every breath, and then get the mask placed on the face, and the strap over the head. By this time they have hold of their own nose and you have the front straps of the bcd bracing yourself for the release-the-nose-put-on-the-mask manoeuvre, and sure enough the student will more-than-likely get the mask in place, take a big breath though the mouth and blow out through the nose, and lo!and behold they have the mask on and cleared.
you heartily congratulate them check they are ok and move on to the final student.

then the third student coughs and splutters and rips off the mask
and says to you that they still hate this skill, with a nice big red mark around her face where she has breathed in and had the mask stuck on her face

... and you sigh and realise that if student cant manage this now on the pool-side what the hell hope will they have when you finally get under water.

... and if you think I am kidding. Beleive me I did this with two very nervous students and their respective spouses whilst in thailand. I thought I would practice the skills on the boat before we even got into the water, and the student still could not do it.

When we finally hit the water and descended, she point-blank refused to remove her mask. She continued the dive, I sent the DM up with the three and tried again, nope.