Question for instructors out there...

[neil]

However, I don't completely agree with Dave's statement that there are always indications that the person shouldn't be doing the dive.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

No, I don't agree completely with that either, but often some pre-screening is in order. Many instructors take students on these dives before they're ready, and I think that's been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere.

 

[mruseless]

As someone once said, it's unfortuante that good judgement often comes from a string of bad judgements.

Best wishes and prayers for the instructo in the OP.

Best wishes to the instructor! Hopefully he will make a full recovery.

A related quote to the one that ianw2 posted,
"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement."

 

[freediver]

The risk would be relative to the many variables impose in the scenario. I feel safe in saying that I would respond as any reasonable and prudent person would. However, while I have every concern for a fellow diver's safety and welfare, I can assure you that my responses would place self-preservation as my prevailing directive.

 

[24940]

I agree about not taking five students on their first deep dive ... I limit it to two.

However, I don't completely agree with Dave's statement that there are always indications that the person shouldn't be doing the dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I wouldn't agree with that statement, either. Glad I didn't make it.



Task loading
Excessive pre-dive stress
Leaking mask
Poor buoyancy control
Over weighting
Current
Bad vis
Mental state
CO2 loading
Dive plan meltdown

These are issues which contributed to many of the incidents I've studied. Most times, there are several issues in succession which cause divers to snap. The end result can usually be described as task overloading, resulting in panic or loss of control.

Sure, there are out of the blue bolters, but I think you would agree they are the exception. Contributing issues, like those I listed, are easily identified and remedied, but they can't be ignored.

 

[Lead_carrier]

I'm floored. I knew that by scuba diving I was putting MY life in danger by My own hand. I never realized that you (instructors) would put your life on the line for me.

You might be surprised at what MOST instructors would try to do for you if you get in a bad situation while under their care, or even diving with them. And I say that for most instructors regardless of agency. Usually the comments that are hardwired coulda, shoulda, woulda or like to start picking apart someone, are from people that don't instruct or fortunately, haven't ever been faced with a bolting diver or other situation. Most of us like to say what we'd do in a certain situation, but we'll never know until we're actually faced with it.

Keep getting good training and practicing your skills and hopefully you'll never know what it's like to face a true emergency.

Like I tell my students," If I screw up and hurt myself, well that's my fault. If I screw up and hurt one of them, well, I have to live with that one.

 

[nereas]

That's a pretty arrogant response, especially with the rest of how you have responded. Your input in this thread was pretty empty other than spouting rhetoric about being a great and selfless person and how you would do anything blah blah. There is no way you can "make sure" you bring a student back alive in every single emergency scenario. You are being unrealistic, likely you are only human and there is only so much you can do. For example if a student had a heart attack at 90 feet and lost consciousness you couldn't say that you can "make sure" that student comes back alive.

Truth is none of us were there, the threadstarter didn't give enough details for us to really make a judgement on what could have been differently. That would help us all give constructive criticism. As for your input though, it would be much better if it were constructive criticism as to how all instructors or divemasters for that matter can do a better job and react in a panic situation. To follow a student into a situation where you would both face certain death isn't smart. You can no longer help a student if you are dead yourself. Most training agencies teach this common sense approach. Now how bout some constructive criticism on how this entire situation could have been prevented or at a minimum have had less injurious results.

-In this situation, the instructor still would have had no way to prevent an embolism, you would not have time to convince a student to breathe in an uncontrolled ascent, if they were holding their breath, even for a few seconds they could embolize and unless you could completely stop the ascent, you would not be able to force them to breath.

-There may have been signs that this student would panic before this dive, situational awareness may have been able to prevent the situation from occurring at all. Of course there is the chance that this was a model student that panicked for the first time and had shown no signs of distress earlier in the course.

- What was causing the ascent? Was the student finning to the surface? Did the student ditch their weights or did the ascent become uncontrolled as air expanded in their BC and/or drysuit. As an instructor you should weight yourself heavier than you would normally weight yourself, if you weight yourself to be neutral at the end of your dive there is little you can do to slow an ascent other than fanning yourself out. If the student still had weights intact the instructor could have taken control from behind, controlled finning and taken control of airdumps, purging air from both him or herself and from the student.

Now lets redirect this thread back to a positive direction. Could we have done better in this scenario? What would you have realistically done? Would you risk both of you paralyzed or dead? Opinions? What input can we have for others that might prevent or reduce injury in future scenarios for our other friends here?

The input that Peardiver07 added is exactly the type of information that adds to these threads!!!

What little piece could I contribute? Be sure to pull the dumps on the students BC/drysuit while holding them so that you are both negative in the water, that makes a fast decent very difficult.

You strike me as a fairly novice instructor, if at all.

I have lots of tricks to "make" a student exhale.

But then, I am also a lot older than you, too.

 

[nereas]

Write me back sometime when you know what your talking about, I am not going to be pulled into a pissing contest with you on this persons thread, OH..... By the way IT IS **IDC** Not ITC.

Have a great day and happy safe Diving to you

"IDC" ?

Ah ha! PADI, no doubt!

 

[24940]

You strike me as a fairly novice instructor, if at all.

I have lots of tricks to "make" a student exhale.

But then, I am also a lot older than you, too.

Shame you aren't a lot wiser.

 

[nereas]

I'm floored. I knew that by scuba diving I was putting MY life in danger by My own hand. I never realized that you (instructors) would put your life on the line for me. That kind of scares me and it makes me want to train? and practice so that I NEVER put someone else in that position. I truthfully don't know what I would do in that situation I stated above. With my current training, I know I would attempt to slow them down. but if i knew it wasn't working would I stop and let them go? I don't know. I know my own limitations and right now I hope I am not expected to put my life on the line for someone else. As I gain more experience and confidence I would think I'd be more willing to put myself out there. I truly have so much respect and appreciation for all of you. Thank You! Wow, I have really learned alot these past few days!

Jeanne, you are NOT "putting your life in danger" IF (1) you had a great instructor, and (2) you do everything correctly that you were taught.

Start with evaluating yourself, and determining what you know you can do.

Next, make sure you have a buddy who is equal to you, at least, or a D/M or and instructor him/her-self.

Then pick an appropriate dive site. If on a boat, listen to the briefing and ask questions before you determine if this dive and site is ok for you.

If on a beach, evaluate the conditions yourself. I look at the water, the waves, the wind, the current, the kelp, the cove, the rocks, the beach, the sand, the sky, the clouds, and the horizon.

Next, plan your dive, set your maximum depth, your maximum dive time, your turn-around SPG pressure, decide whether you or your buddy will lead and the other follow, and then stick to your plan while diving it.

Clear your ears, control your descent, stick near your buddy, make sure you can both see each other, keep your buoyancy neutral, monitor your SPG and your buddy's SPG, relax, and enjoy the view. It is like watching Jacques Cousteau on TV, except that now you are actually IN THE SCENE, not just watching it.

Signal your buddy to turn around when it is time to turn around, control your ascent, stop half-way up for about 1 min, then slowly from there until you get to 15 fsw/ffw, and wait 3 to 5 mins.

If you ever have a problem, then stop, relax and breathe, think, and act to resolve it, or ask your buddy to help you, or both.

The whole time, you should be having fun, not "putting your life in danger."

 

[perdidochas]

Write me back sometime when you know what your talking about, I am not going to be pulled into a pissing contest with you on this persons thread, OH..... By the way IT IS **IDC** Not ITC.

Have a great day and happy safe Diving to you

In NAUI terms, it's an ITC, not a IDC.