Public Service Announcement Add Helium Carbon fiber tanks

[Lorenzoid]

It looks like the attachments include testimony from some kind of legal proceeding, but I don't see anything in your posts or the attachments identifying what legal proceeding that was.

. . . to create an illegal product . . . .

If some court ruled someone violated a law, yes. Otherwise, you're accusing someone of violating the law. That's beyond just giving out "information."

Has there actually been a ruling?

 

[SoFlaDiver954]

I'm not a CCR diver and have never dealt with AH. But it strikes me as a distinct possibility that a comepeting shop in the area (Deep Blue Divers in Lauderdale by the Sea, another shop with which I have no experience) might be trying to spread some unflattering, and seemingly trite, info about AH.

But I do not know DEEP BLUE CCR and their relationship to Deep Blue Divers (or lack thereof) so this would be complete speculation.

 

[Patoux01]

Personally it never ceases to amaze me that CCR divers (supposedly the most experienced of technical divers) would even consider carbon wrapped cylinders safe, given they are un-inspectable by the dive industry.

Well, isn't that what carbondive sells?

 

[2airishuman]

I thought we already had this thread.

I had seen these cylinders for sale on the Add Helium web site when I was ordering some odds and ends from them that happened to be out of stock with my usual suppliers. It is my recollection that it was quite clear on the web site at that time that these cylinders did not comply with the USDOT/PHMSA requirements for compressed gas packaging in commerce. Despite the many dozens of posts on this topic, I don't remember being the least bit convinced that there was any misleading of the buyer going on.

I don't think it's helpful to run a "PSA" stating that the sketchy lightweight Chinese carbon fiber cylinders being sold as such by Add Helium were, in actual fact, <drum roll> sketchy lightweight Chinese carbon fiber cylinders.

Now, mind you, I'm not going to dive that ****, because I have no way to assess how well or badly engineered it is, and I don't like taking unnecessary risks that I can't quantify. Besides, I'm not a rebreather diver, and am skeptical of the safety of cave fills. ::shrug:: Perhaps Sotis and his clientele have a different attitude about diving than I do.

Whether it is technically within or outside the boundaries of the law to sell and use these cylinders is a sideshow and nothing more than a distraction from the real issues that exist between Add Helium and the rest of the industry.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Well, isn't that what carbondive sells?

Maybe.

Please enlighten me how you inspect them. I'm all ears

 

[DEEP BLUE CCR]

For the record there are carbon fiber tanks which are CE / UW and US / DOT approved they just cost more. Which could minimize the sellers bottom line.

 

[Patoux01]

Please enlighten me how you inspect them. I'm all ears

I never said I knew, I said they're supposed to have a procedure for it, as they can be sold in Europe and therefore need to comply with the regulations. I also haven't heard of any issue with people using carbon tanks. Anyway, that's off topic.

 

[Diving Dubai]

It maybe OT (this is SB after all) but I don't want people who have "legit" cylinders sitting there smugly thinking they're okay

The issue is teh interface with the carbon and the metallic liner.

The only way you can inspect it is with ultrasonic. Either A scan or fill the cylinder with water and C scan it.

Which ever way you inspect it, you need to know the allowable defects for corrosion, Delaminations, resin rich areas and voids. Yes these are inspected at manufacture but in service...?

Given a normal Dive shop wont invest in a basic UFD machine as $20,000 per unit plus training, you'll need to send it to a commercial inspection shop, who unless they've done it before will need to get the manufacturers procedure and refine it for their kit (getting approval) etc etc .. in short lots of $$$

We spent $$M in aerospace figuring out defect with carbon and metallic interfaces, it can be done for sure, but not at the level of the dive industry.

Good idea badly executed and not suitable for the underwater environment despite what the marketing BS says

 

[DEEP BLUE CCR]

Carbon dive sells steel tanks with a carbon fiber wrap. Which they sell to the US only as limited production , which does not comply with DOT standards, carbon dive does not produce or sell Scuba tanks to the US. They use very specific language. Cylinders and valves which come from two different countries (Austria and Italy) and are not assembled. You as a US purchasers of the cylinders must put them together creating and determining the products intended end use.

 

[Wookie]

So carbon dive sells a hoop wrapped cylinder marketed to divers for a purpose that is not compatible with the intended service of the cylinder? Color me shocked. And that's OK, but what Add Helium did was not OK? Color me even more shocked.