Public Safety Diving in Overheads

[Trace Malinowski]

When it comes to type of overhead, depth, and distance of penetration into an overhead environment, at what point do most public safety dive teams believe a dive is beyond their capabilities and turn to help from teams like the International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery (IUCRR), NSS-CDS Cave Recovery divers, or other divers or organizations specializing in wreck, cave, or other overheads?

 

[ditch-diver]

If we are diving in a "confined space' i.e. overhead environment we must do it on surface supplied air. If we are in the full length of our hoses and cannot go further, then we call it. If we call it, we are done. We are (in the Great White North) prohibited from turning to other 'teams' or agencies and requesting their assistance. (except going to the military, which has been done) The minute we ask some random volunteer team and they agree, whether they are getting paid or not, they are now 'working divers' by definition and must adhere to the same strict rules that all working divers must stick to. (SSAD for confined space, no deco without chamber 'readily available', medicals, logs, equipment records, etc, etc)

Most of the specialist teams realize we cannot ask, so if it is beyond our reaches, we merely shrug and say we did our best, let them know we are done and walk away. They, on their own without our requests may go and do the dive because they have nothing to do with us.

 

[Gary D.]

Been there, done that.

Gary D.

 

[200 Bar]

When it comes to type of overhead, depth, and distance of penetration into an overhead environment, at what point do most public safety dive teams believe a dive is beyond their capabilities and turn to help from teams like the International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery (IUCRR), NSS-CDS Cave Recovery divers, or other divers or organizations specializing in wreck, cave, or other overheads?

Are you referring to a body recovery in a cave system..?? or something else...?? I am trying to think of an incident that there where not be numerous qualified PSD's...(In Florida anyway...

 

[Papa_Bear]

A lot of our team took full cave training! I would say there would be high liability if untrained divers were asked to go into an over head environment without training! We used Harness for all of our diving!

 

[200 Bar]

A lot of our team took full cave training! I would say there would be high liability if untrained divers were asked to go into an over head environment without training! We used Harness for all of our diving!

Papa do you search ship hulls as part of your duties for parasitical devices with harness's..??

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Are you referring to a body recovery in a cave system..?? or something else...?? I am trying to think of an incident that there where not be numerous qualified PSD's...(In Florida anyway...

In Florida, with the number of wreck and cave divers, someone from a dive team or law enforcement may most likely know a diver who is qualified for a body recovery inside a cave, wreck or other overhead.

There are many places outside of the state of Florida with caves, mines, wrecks and other overheads. Organizations such as the IUCRR have regional coordinators and members who are trained in penetration techniques ready for call-out. There are also trained cave recovery divers and wreck penetration divers who reside in these areas, but may be unknown to public safety dive teams and law enforcement.

There are also many public safety teams that do not have divers trained in penetration techniques.

I was wondering at what point a dive team would prefer to ask for such assistance than send its own divers into the water. My next question would have been is it common PSD knowledge that regional IUCRR teams are available for such instances?

 

[Papa_Bear]

200 bar, we only have canals and lakes, so no boats large enough to bring up that problem!

I know they used to call Bill Reneker in Northern Florida! Still might?

 

[200 Bar]

In Florida, with the number of wreck and cave divers, someone from a dive team or law enforcement may most likely know a diver who is qualified for a body recovery inside a cave, wreck or other overhead.

There are many places outside of the state of Florida with caves, mines, wrecks and other overheads. Organizations such as the IUCRR have regional coordinators and members who are trained in penetration techniques ready for call-out. There are also trained cave recovery divers and wreck penetration divers who reside in these areas, but may be unknown to public safety dive teams and law enforcement.

There are also many public safety teams that do not have divers trained in penetration techniques.

I was wondering at what point a dive team would prefer to ask for such assistance than send its own divers into the water. My next question would have been is it common PSD knowledge that regional IUCRR teams are available for such instances?

I would have no problem calling in the expertise of IUCRR or anyone
else for that matter...My goal is that all my team members make the same ascents as they do descents...(On their own volition that is !!)..I keep an on call list of all types of outside assistance...There are issues regarding the handling of evidence by non-law enforcement, but nothing so serious as to prevent non law enforcement assistance...

 

[200 Bar]

200 bar, we only have canals and lakes, so no boats large enough to bring up that problem!

I know they used to call Bill Reneker in Northern Florida! Still might?

I hear ya....We experimented with harness and surface supplied air...For us it wasn't practical (under ships) in the Port of Tampa...I was constantly backtracking to untangle from re-bar and bent bilge keels on ships when searching...Hooking cars in canals and retention ponds was something else tho !!