Prolene mesh and diving

[Saturation]

blacknet once bubbled...
Hello,

I do one day plan on doing decompression dives, hopefully.

Ed

Hi Ed:

Consider diving on the conservative side of any schedule. Be aware of any strange sensations coming from the general location of the surgery during deco.

In theory, scars are locations of reduced blood flow. The scarred area would need more time to in and off gas compared to unscarred tissue. If there is some reduction in circulation during deco, then added time maybe needed to aid offgassing.

I know one case personally that use the scars to some advantage.

A former US Ranger has had wrist and shoulder surgery. During deco, he notes a marked swelling at these sites that recedes as deco proceeds. Sounds handy to me rather than an issue!

Another diver suffers from a kind of carpal tunnel syndrome. After deco, he would sometimes notice skin bends limited only to areas on his hands.

 

[blacknet]

Saturation,

Now we're getting somewhere. I'm still on a 15 lbs weight restriction form the surgery and it's probably going to be awhile before I can do any serious lifting again.

Some history, first surgery put 2 3"x6" strips in each side and both have ripped loose, shifted and is curled up. The second surgery cleared the original hernias and put additional mesh in place. He also re-attached the old mesh to what I hope is permanent. I still have pain from the staples that was used and the surgeon tells me that's going to be there for life.

As for long term goals I am hoping to get into decompression and rebreathers, mostly for photographic uses.

I have always heard that scar tissue is hydrophobic and not a good thing to have for any form of scuba activities. I don't think many people actually understand the situation so it's difficult to say anything.

One problem that I do see is post dive pain from the surgery, esp. when it comes to distinguishing it from dcs symptoms. That is one area that no one has touched on.

Ed

 

[Saturation]

blacknet once bubbled...
Saturation,

I have always heard that scar tissue is hydrophobic and not a good thing to have for any form of scuba activities. I don't think many people actually understand the situation so it's difficult to say anything.

One problem that I do see is post dive pain from the surgery, esp. when it comes to distinguishing it from dcs symptoms. That is one area that no one has touched on.

Ed

Hi Ed:

Post abdominal surgery, weight lifting capacity is important as single tanks weigh ~50 lbs and deco rigs weigh ~ 130 lbs.

Scar or surgical pain can often be distinguished from other types of pain by its persistence above-below water, regardless of depth-time and even before a significant inert gas load has occurred.

If the scarrified area takes longer to off gas than the majority of normal tissues, it may cause localized reactions or likely, dull ache. If such were to occur, one needs to estimate by trial & error the amount of prolonged deco to resolve it. Bubbles from here escaping into circulation will equilibrate to tissue tension and likely shrink to insignificance.

 

[blacknet]

Saturation,

Great, now why wouldn't the DAN doc's I talked to tell me about that? They just shruged it off and pleaded ignorant and clueless, typical DAN.

This trial and error part, assuming there is some localized reactions, wouldn't it be safe to state even without any ache there could be a problem still? Somewhat of a silent factor?

Ed

 

[Saturation]

blacknet once bubbled...
Saturation,
Great, now why wouldn't the DAN doc's I talked to tell me about that? They just shruged it off and pleaded ignorant and clueless, typical DAN.

Hi Ed:

Your friendly neighborhood DAN doc is competent in most issues, but your questions refer to the uncommon in today's literature. As divers age the issues of chronic injury or disease in diving is getting more attention but remains poorly described in journals that most docs use for information.

Dr. Davis [deceased] & Dr. Bove's are one of few who discuss the issues of differentiating back pain from DCI pain in his textbooks. The mechanism and character of such pain versus the escalating nature of spinal DCI pain are clues to their differentiation. Bove's model forms a basis for differentiating pain from other sources against DCI: pain from surgery at other sites, pain from healed fractures, pain from tennis elbow, pain from rotator cuff problems etc. In addition, these chronic pains often do not respond to 02 or recompression.

Bove, and even myself, are on DAN's roster if you call.

Experience with divers and their health issues matter too and frankly, many of the issues brought up to my attention I see in the field while diving, not in my office. This is mutual beneficial with technical divers, who encounter many strange issues related to decompression in regards to health issues like old surgeries or diseases like hypertension.

blacknet once bubbled...
Saturation,
This trial and error part, assuming there is some localized reactions, wouldn't it be safe to state even without any ache there could be a problem still? Somewhat of a silent factor?
Ed

In joint, skin and middle ear bends, absence of symptoms: pain, rash and dizziness, is the marker of successful treatment. Getting bent repeatedly can lead to chronic problems with bones but not with skin or the middle ear. In neurologic bends, beyond absence of symptoms, any permanent injuries can be checked via a CT or MRI scan.

If the scar were to suffer something beyond the patient not feeling it, it would only affect the scar.

 

[blacknet]

Saturation,

So basicaly what your telling me is to learn more about dci, how to recognize it and what it does to the body?

Ed

 

[Saturation]

blacknet once bubbled...
Saturation,

So basicaly what your telling me is to learn more about dci, how to recognize it and what it does to the body?

Ed

Yes, and specifically to be able to discern the subtle differences between pain from the old surgery and pain when its not from surgery.

If you undergo training for decompression a good instructor will introduce you to decompression theory. The theory provides a deeper understanding of the mechanisms of illness caused by bubbles.

 

[blacknet]

Saturated,

Deco theory is one of the classes I was looking at doing in the rebreather route. I now think that maybe take something extra in that department from a doctor not a scuba instructor maybe in order.

Ed

 

[Saturation]

blacknet once bubbled...
Saturated,

Deco theory is one of the classes I was looking at doing in the rebreather route. I now think that maybe take something extra in that department from a doctor not a scuba instructor maybe in order.

Ed

If you're landlocked for a while, you can read about it. The best available is Brubakk and Neuman's 5th ed. "Bennett & Eliott's Physiology and Medicine of Diving," 2003. The other is Wienke's Technical Diving in Depth, 2002. Both are very technical. You can find free papers by Wienke and others on bubble theory at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/divingaccidents/files/

 

[blacknet]

Hello,

Bennett and Elliott's Physiology and Medicine of Diving book is not cheap, $134 at bamm.com.

the only place i've managed to find "TECHNICAL DIVING IN DEPTH " is best publishing company, know of any place else that has this book, none of the big book houses lists it.

Ed