Gene is quite a character. I met him (thinking he was a she) back in 1996 when I bought my house in Eastport. I named "her" Jean after my wife's aunt as a joke. We started feeding "her" and she became pretty comfortable around divers. A few years later he was guarding a nest of eggs--a male role with wolffish--and we realized she was a male. So we changed his name to Gene. Anyway, 19 years later we are still friends!
Project Argonaut, totally new, vintage style DH regulator
- Thread starter Luis H
- Start date
Please register or login
SurfLung
Contributor
Luis, I've noticed on a few photos that you are using hose weights when diving your Argonaut. I haven't found the hose buoyancy to be a problem so, I'm wondering what advantage you are gaining by using them? - Eb
OP
The air volume inside the hoses has a measured buoyancy of about 1.5 pounds. You can confirm this by filling the hose loop with water and measuring the weight. About half of that weight is trying to lift the regulator and the other half trying to lift your mouthpiece (depends somewhat on diver position).
The rubber material of any of the hoses we have been using (silicone or vintage rubber, etc) is in itself very close to neutrally buoyant. So it doesn’t affect the air buoyancy.
The buoyancy of the air in the hoses is not particularly objectionable with the vintage style curve mouthpiece because the mouthpiece bite is very short and the tube is very close to your mouth. This reduces the moment arm that would create up-ward torsion on your mouth.
If you use a Hope-Page or any other mouthpiece with a replaceable bite (like the bite on a single hose regulator) the moment-arm I am talking about increases. At first you may not notice the difference, but after diving for a couple of hours or more it becomes painful.
I stated using the hose weights to resolve this issue, but I have found a lot of related advantages.
There are a few other advantages that I wrote down, but I am not at home at the moment.
There are only two objections that I have heard: looks and travel weight.
After I started using the hose weights, now I even use them with my curved mouthpiece. The improvement in comfort level is even more noticeable when I do several dives a day for several consecutive days.
At first the difference seems subtle, but after a while the difference is very noticeable.
The rubber material of any of the hoses we have been using (silicone or vintage rubber, etc) is in itself very close to neutrally buoyant. So it doesn’t affect the air buoyancy.
The buoyancy of the air in the hoses is not particularly objectionable with the vintage style curve mouthpiece because the mouthpiece bite is very short and the tube is very close to your mouth. This reduces the moment arm that would create up-ward torsion on your mouth.
If you use a Hope-Page or any other mouthpiece with a replaceable bite (like the bite on a single hose regulator) the moment-arm I am talking about increases. At first you may not notice the difference, but after diving for a couple of hours or more it becomes painful.
I stated using the hose weights to resolve this issue, but I have found a lot of related advantages.
- The hose loop takes a much better shape.
- When you look to the side the hoses are never in your field of view (I found that my low profile mask has the best peripheral vision of any mask ever made).
- The hoses never rub on my ears anymore. That can be very irritating to some.
- The lack of any pull on any direction is extremely comfortable.
- The hoses don't feel like they are even there.
There are a few other advantages that I wrote down, but I am not at home at the moment.
There are only two objections that I have heard: looks and travel weight.
- Black hose weights tend to look a lot better (you can’t even see them on black hoses).
- The travel weight increase is relatively small and a very small trade-off for the advantages in comfort.
After I started using the hose weights, now I even use them with my curved mouthpiece. The improvement in comfort level is even more noticeable when I do several dives a day for several consecutive days.
At first the difference seems subtle, but after a while the difference is very noticeable.
TN Traveler
Contributor
So where do you get hose weights??
---------- Post added September 17th, 2015 at 04:42 PM ----------
I just got back from a week of diving in Key Largo using my new Kraken and can say that it was a great experience. I have and dive a Mistral, DA and a PRAM but none of them compare to the Kraken. My wife commented that it was the most relaxed she had ever seen me diving and my air consumption dropped to the same level as her's
This is a first in our ten years of diving together.
My sincerest thanks to both Luis and Bryan!!
---------- Post added September 17th, 2015 at 04:42 PM ----------
I just got back from a week of diving in Key Largo using my new Kraken and can say that it was a great experience. I have and dive a Mistral, DA and a PRAM but none of them compare to the Kraken. My wife commented that it was the most relaxed she had ever seen me diving and my air consumption dropped to the same level as her's
This is a first in our ten years of diving together.My sincerest thanks to both Luis and Bryan!!
New Stainless Steel O Rings 1-1/8"
BTW: I think I purchased the shackles for the spring straps for my fins from the same vendor.
Last edited:
TN Traveler
Contributor
Thanks
OK - how many do I need? (They don't give a weight) And how do I attach them (or do they just sit there)?
Sorry if I seem clueless.
looking at the picture on the previous page, I count 8 (4 on each side)..... it also appears they are sitting in the folds of the corrugation... YMMV
TN Traveler
Contributor
Great observation. Thanks
OP
In that hose loop (in the picture) I was only using 8 (4+4), but if you look closer, you will see two larger rings as part of the prototype mouthpiece.
The key is to add between 1/2 pound to 0.7 pounds.
I have bought several rings and they come in several wire diameter. I actually calculated the weight using the volume equation for a toroid, but the tolerances on wire thickness creates enough inaccuracies that it was easier just measuring the weight.
Be aware that the wire diameter on the link that Couv provided is only 1/8 inch. At that price, I would order at least 10 to 14. Then weight them and try them out. With the curve mouthpiece is not as critical and may become a personal preference.
Bryan is working on sourcing some rings and having them available with a black finish. The sample black ones that I have tried definitely look better, IMO.
To put them on just crimple the hose and pull them on. They will stay in the valley of the convolution as soon as you let the hose regain its natural shape.
__________________________________
Here is a picture back when I was measuring the internal volume of a hose loop. I measured several loops with different hoses.
I used the mouthpiece plug to hold the water. It looks like it is leaking, but those drops are mostly from the wet hoses. The few drops of water on the outside of the hoses are insignificant for the approximate measurement that I was seeking.
I also measure the the density/ displacement of the rubber and verified it with some published data.
The key is to add between 1/2 pound to 0.7 pounds.
I have bought several rings and they come in several wire diameter. I actually calculated the weight using the volume equation for a toroid, but the tolerances on wire thickness creates enough inaccuracies that it was easier just measuring the weight.
Be aware that the wire diameter on the link that Couv provided is only 1/8 inch. At that price, I would order at least 10 to 14. Then weight them and try them out. With the curve mouthpiece is not as critical and may become a personal preference.
Bryan is working on sourcing some rings and having them available with a black finish. The sample black ones that I have tried definitely look better, IMO.
To put them on just crimple the hose and pull them on. They will stay in the valley of the convolution as soon as you let the hose regain its natural shape.
__________________________________
Here is a picture back when I was measuring the internal volume of a hose loop. I measured several loops with different hoses.
I used the mouthpiece plug to hold the water. It looks like it is leaking, but those drops are mostly from the wet hoses. The few drops of water on the outside of the hoses are insignificant for the approximate measurement that I was seeking.
I also measure the the density/ displacement of the rubber and verified it with some published data.
The hose weights greatly increase the comfort and reduce the tendency for the mouthpiece to pry upward on my jaw.
N
N
Similar threads
