Problems with HOG regs

[LowDrag]

Sounds to me like a very well tuned reg doing exactly what it should do.

Verify the location of the leak in water. Even a finger tight connection should not leak (until it loosens further). The o-ring sealing that connection (if I understand you correctly) should already be installed in the hose. It may need to be check to see that it is not damaged.

Apparently I have never had a really well tuned reg then because my ScubaPro C300 never did that.

I seem to remember that I put an o-ring on the reg because there wasn't one. I will have to double check that....thanks.

 

[redacted]

Apparently I have never had a really well tuned reg then because my ScubaPro C300 never did that.

I seem to remember that I put an o-ring on the reg because there wasn't one. I will have to double check that....thanks.

One way to test cracking pressure on a 2nd is to slowly submerge it, mouthpiece pointing up, in water. Cracking pressure should be set to about 1" of water +/- about .2 inches. So it should start flowing well before water flows into the mouthpiece - maybe before the mouthpiece even reaches the water. Once it starts flowing, the venturi effect should cut in and increase the flow rate. When you drop a pressurized regulator into the water, mouthpiece pointing upwards, this may occur very quickly resulting in a very strong freeflow.

 

[cerich]

What oring did you add? That makes no sense to me. When a high performing reg is out of your mouth and the mouthpiece is up, the freeflow. That's normal as awap stated.

I just put two dives on my brand new HOG Zenith yesterday. I was diving Cove 2 in Seattle and had the same free flow issue others are talking about. My reg slipped out of my hand and dropped into the water and started to free flow. I grabbed it and put my hand over the mouth piece and stopped the free flow. I let the Zenith hang in the water again and it free flowed once more. I turned the tuning knob a bit and it seemed to help out. All in all I loved the way this reg breathes.

Today I was draining off a tank with my Zenith and felt air leaking out at the hose end closest to the reg. I know I did not use two wrenches to tighten the connection when I put an o-ring so does that mean I messed it up and need to send it to a tech to have it checked out?

 

[LowDrag]

One way to test cracking pressure on a 2nd is to slowly submerge it, mouthpiece pointing up, in water. Cracking pressure should be set to about 1" of water +/- about .2 inches. So it should start flowing well before water flows into the mouthpiece - maybe before the mouthpiece even reaches the water. Once it starts flowing, the venturi effect should cut in and increase the flow rate. When you drop a pressurized regulator into the water, mouthpiece pointing upwards, this may occur very quickly resulting in a very strong freeflow.

That is exactly what was happening. As soon as it slipped out of my hand and into the water it free flowed. Thanks for the info...it is much appreciated now I can relax. As I said above, my first reg (ScubaPro C300) never did the free flow thing. I will definitely be replacing my reg setup in the future.

What oring did you add? That makes no sense to me. When a high performing reg is out of your mouth and the mouthpiece is up, the freeflow. That's normal as awap stated.

I added an o-ring where the hose attached to the reg. I am going up to the LDS today so I will pull the hose off (with two wrenches) and double check to make sure I did not add a second o-ring by mistake.

Thanks

 

[Peter_C]

Lowedrag, did you lubricant the o-ring? I would recommend using either Cristo-lube, Tribolube 71, or something thereof. It will help the 2nd stage reg spin on the hose. No lube is needed on the first stage end of the hose, but it doesn't seem to hurt either. The main sealing o-ring is on the end of the hose.

My backup reg bungeed around my neck is tuned less aggressively then my primary in my mouth. As mentioned above a well tuned reg will free flow very easily, which is what also makes them so comfortable to breathe at depth. My primary will sometimes bubble a little at depth. Then I can tune out the bubbles with the knob, which is just how I like it.

 

[Odo]

I bought a couple Hogs last year and did experience some wet breathing in high current conditions. Not mouthfulls of water; not all the time, just enough to be annoying every once in a while. Before I got the Hogs, I used Apeks ATX-200 and TX-100 regs, and don't remember ever getting a drop of water while breathing.
So, time for some show and tell:
The reg on the left is an Apeks and on the right is a Hog. The grey exhaust valve is an Apeks; the red exhaust valve is a Hog. The exhaust valve for the Apeks sits in a recessed well, so cross flow through the exhaust ports has a hard time pulling the exhaust valve off its seat. The Apeks valve also has a stiffener that is supposed to sit parallel to the exhaust ports, which also aids in keeping the valve seated. The Hog exhaust valve sits on top of a raised rim, directly in the cross flow of exhaust ports. The Hog exhaust valve is more pliable ("flimsier" if that's a word) than the Apeks valve. Those two aspects contribute to the Hog breathing a bit wet at times. My fix was to buy a few Apeks exhaust valves and use them in the Hog regs. They are the same diameter. The stem has collar that holds the valve in the mounting hole. The collar is slightly further down the stem on the Apeks valve, so there was a little play and it allowed the valve to rotate (it didn't hold the valve firmly in position). I bought a small nylon washer from my local hardware store to take up the slack in the stem. After 10-12 dives, I have experienced no wet breathing, so far. I have noticed no extra effort required while inhaling. The Apeks and Hog regulators both breathe incredibly well. I understand that Hog has a new, redesigned second stage, but I don't know what improvements may have been made. I really like the Hogs (with the modified exhaust valve), and you can't beat the price, or the customer service.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Odo, good information, and corroborates my experience with breathing wet (in current, I suppose). Unfortunately, I'm not confident in my ability to safely do the modification you describe.

 

[jacksatlanta]

As redesigning the entire case is a lengthy and expensive proposition as well as the fact that it took us some time to get the case we currently have to a performance that is great we don't want to change the regulator body. Also, we do not advocate or desire to use a stiffer exhaust diaphragm material as that will increase WOB breathing a bit (hurting overall performance) by increasing exhalation effort. That being said we have taken to heart everyones' comments, suggestions and concerns and are currently working to change the exhaust diaphragm cover to help cut down on cross flow and fold over/lift off. Once the prototyping and testing is complete this option will allow us to retrofit all of our second stages and cut down significantly if not eliminate the causes of the occasional wet breathing. This option will also be the most efficient and cost effective measure, we will keep you all posted on progress and let everyone know when the new part is available. We believe we have a very solid performing regulator at a great value but are always willing to make it better based on user feedback.
Jack Schmidt - EDGE DIVE GEAR Operations Manager

 

[Bhtmec2]

As redesigning the entire case is a lengthy and expensive proposition as well as the fact that it took us some time to get the case we currently have to a performance that is great we don't want to change the regulator body. Also, we do not advocate or desire to use a stiffer exhaust diaphragm material as that will increase WOB breathing a bit (hurting overall performance) by increasing exhalation effort. That being said we have taken to heart everyones' comments, suggestions and concerns and are currently working to change the exhaust diaphragm cover to help cut down on cross flow and fold over/lift off. Once the prototyping and testing is complete this option will allow us to retrofit all of our second stages and cut down significantly if not eliminate the causes of the occasional wet breathing. This option will also be the most efficient and cost effective measure, we will keep you all posted on progress and let everyone know when the new part is available. We believe we have a very solid performing regulator at a great value but are always willing to make it better based on user feedback.
Jack Schmidt - EDGE DIVE GEAR Operations Manager

Great news!!! I have had them breath wet on some deep dives only with some current. Now if we could figure out how to keep seams on wing bladders from coming apart.....

Looking forward to seeing your fix on the exhaust. How many months should this project take give or take?

 

[Lorenzoid]

Once again, I'm impressed with HOG. Listening to feedback and considering a design modification. Just the fact that HOG acknowledges there is room for improvement impresses me.