Problems with Advanced and Stress/Rescue Class

[Stujiro]

Recreational scuba diving isn't rocket science, and shouldn't be made out to be. As someone said before if you're looking for something a bit more technical then maybe you should look into training with the more tech oriented agencies (GUE, UTD, TDI).

 

[acelockco]

I know not everyone agrees with me, but I have found those that do. I have decided to not use SSI and continue on with NAUI so at this point there really isn't any reason to continue this conversation unless someone just likes to argue. I won't be checking this thread any longer so if you have something to tell me, just send me a personal message or email.

 

[SeaHorse81]

What happens when one of your students gets injured or dies trying to "rescue" you? All it would take is for one of them to panic and bolt for the surface without breathing.

Training is fine. Scaring the crap out of an unsuspecting student isn't.

I have participated in one of Jim's classes in which he offered this particular challenge. We had practiced the unconscious diver scenario numerous times earlier in the dive (both watching and doing), so the process of what to do was already familiar. When he played dead, I had a half-second of, "That's odd," followed by, "Oh, we're doing unconscious diver, cool." Whereupon we did exactly what we'd practiced earlier in the session with no stress at all. Because the skills had been so thoroughly covered and repeated earlier, it was a very calm matter of simply knowing what to do and executing when necessary. It was quite-confidence building, actually.

Whether he was playing dead or had actually developed a real medical problem on a training dive with students, we'd have responded the same way, which I think is the point. I've seen him pull other surprises as well, always after controlled practice and with students that have demonstrated readiness and ability to follow through. I like that he mixes things up enough to keep people thinking actively, rather than getting into auto-pilot. Suits my style of learning, anyway.

I've had other instruction, and for the record, have never noted someone to keep as close an eye on students in the water as Jim does.

Flots, your concerns are valid in a general way, but I think Jim really has his bases covered.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

After listening to most of you, I feel even stronger about my case. It seems like the majority of divers here can only handle the 5th grade level and that is what they like. Those people are only reinforcing my thoughts about SSI and diving with an SSI diver.

I didn't realize that diving was for uneducated adults and children. I suppose as a physicist and a mathematician I should find some other sport because SSI diving is not intended for intelligent people. Funny, because when I initially started diving, just the opposite was true. If you didn't have the inteligence to understand the material you didn't pass the class. Now it seems if you can't pass, they will hold your hand and walk you through so you do pass.

I can see clearly now that this is all about making money and not giving a proper education or training.

As another mathematician, I didn't realize that we were so exalted. I thought I was no better than anyone else. Thanks for letting me know how special those like you are.

You have my sympathy. I've known many hyper-intelligent people who work in fields that minimze human contact, and they've all been socially inept and more-or-less miserable.
Right on.

That would be my recommendation as well.
Ditto.

flots.

I know not everyone agrees with me, but I have found those that do. I have decided to not use SSI and continue on with NAUI so at this point there really isn't any reason to continue this conversation unless someone just likes to argue. I won't be checking this thread any longer so if you have something to tell me, just send me a personal message or email.

I can't imagine why everyone wouldn't agree with you. You come across so well....
It's probably a good thing you are done.
Betcha' do check back. They all do.....
Wait, you're here right now:
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 11 (6 members and 5 guests)
ZenDiver.3D, Blue Sparkle, SeaHorse81, acelockco, Stujiro, burger king

 

[weaponeer]

It's probably a good thing you are done.
Betcha' do check back. They all do.....
Wait, you're here right now:
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 11 (6 members and 5 guests)
ZenDiver.3D, Blue Sparkle, SeaHorse81, acelockco, Stujiro, burger king

Let him go sit in the corner with the few other people that don't mind his "better than thou" approach. Maybe they can come up with a mental apptitude test requirement for those seeking to become SCUBA certified so that there aren't a bunch of idiot divers roaming the seas... makes me feel safer just thinking about it.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Thanks Seahorse81, That is exactly how a diver should react to an "unconscious" diver they encounter. I went "unconscious". And you both reacted perfectly. And acted as a team to recover the diver(me). And even better were in the proper position to assist me. Extra points for that.

And flotsam you still have not answered what scenarios you yourself use in rescue classes. No info on your profile as to what agency you teach through either. Nor your level, number of dives, etc. What agency standards do you have in your reference library. I have them for 6 agencies and working on getting more. In some rescue class scenarios the instructor does not even need to be in the water. They can direct everything from shore. I don;t do that. I don't ask my volunteer victims to be the unconscious diver for anyone except me when demoing it. Then I take the risk of being the recovered vic for students.

I would have no problem with a student pulling an unconscious on me. I'm an instructor. I know what to do. I expect the divers I train to be able to handle the unexpected in open water. Not just in the pool. Pool is easy. But I don't normally dive in a pool and neither do my students.

 

[flots am]

And flotsam you still have not answered what scenarios you yourself use in rescue classes.

No info on your profile as to what agency you teach through either. Nor your level, number of dives, etc. What agency standards do you have in your reference library. I have them for 6 agencies and working on getting more. In some rescue class scenarios the instructor does not even need to be in the water.

My opinion is that misleading students into thinking that you're injured or dead is inappropriate and dangerous. My agency affiliation and training methods are irrelevant, except that I would never consider pulling a stunt like that.

I would have no problem with a student pulling an unconscious on me. I'm an instructor. I know what to do.

That's fascinating. What level card do I need to get my "Raise the Dead" specialty?

flots.

 

[theduckguru]

I really hope that a representative from SSI is able to address my issues and help to figure out a solution.

I recently signed up for the SSI Advanced and the SSI Rescue diver programs at my local dive shop. They handed me a small stack of books that I needed to study for the class. Upon starting to read the books I felt extremely upset to find that the books were geared toward people with a 5th grade education, I was wondering if we were supposed to get crayons with the books?

Seriously, I just got off the telephone with the dive shop and am waiting for the owner to get back to me as I have requested a refund on both classes. I can't understand why classes like this would be on such a remedial level. Of course I am sure I will have to eat the cost of the books because I was required to write in them, which really pisses me off.

Anyway, I am thinking about going to NAUI for the remainder of my training. I feel so cheated by SSI as I learned more in my original OW1 class from NAUI then I would learn from any of these classes offered by SSI.

I had no idea when I was sigining up for SSI that I was signing up for scuba for dummies!

As you can tell I am livid and HOPE that the dive shop owner refunds my money. If not, I hope that SSI will step in and make it right. And even one step better would be for SSI to rethink their education system or rethink being in this industry.

I also will no longer dive with someone that has a certification by SSI unless they can prove to me they really know what they are doing. I can't believe what a joke SSI is. I am sorry to be so harsh, but I feel like SSI slapped me in the face as they took my money.

Jason

If the OP had taken the time to review the course completion requirements prior to the purchase of the materials, he might have learned the certification requirement for the SSI AOW and Rescue Diver is age 15.

The material has to be age / education appropriate in that regard and meet the reading comprehension level of the average adult.

http://www.informatics-review.com/FAQ/reading.html

 

[pamariay]

I have both PADI and SSI Advanced Open Water certifications. Of the two AOW courses, the SSI training was more rigorous. With SSI, I had to complete 8 training dives, pass a test, and have 24 logged dives before I could get my advanced certification. With PADI, I just had to complete 5 training dives. I did not have to pass a test for PADI AOW, and I did not have to have a minimum number of logged dives. Also, my SSI course definitely covered topics in more depth. For example, I learned a lot more about wreck diving from SSI than I did from PADI.

My daughter has a NAUI Advanced Open Water certification, and I am reading her textbook right now. The NAUI book does have more details about different types of equipment, and it contains fewer graphics. But overall, the NAUI book seems to contain the same content as the SSI and PADI books.

I think the best thing you can do is find a dive shop with instructors that you respect. That's what I did (with an SSI shop), and I am happy with the training I have received.

 

[Lead_carrier]

.... sure will no longer use that dive shop or SSI for anything (unless one of them decides to make it right).

After listening to most of you, I feel even stronger about my case. It seems like the majority of divers here can only handle the 5th grade level and that is what they like. Those people are only reinforcing my thoughts about SSI and diving with an SSI diver.

I didn't realize that diving was for uneducated adults and children. I suppose as a physicist and a mathematician I should find some other sport because SSI diving is not intended for intelligent people. Funny, because when I initially started diving, just the opposite was true. If you didn't have the inteligence to understand the material you didn't pass the class. Now it seems if you can't pass, they will hold your hand and walk you through so you do pass.

I can see clearly now that this is all about making money and not giving a proper education or training.

From the ones of us that don't know you but might run into you.. Thanks.. I'll be sure to let you know I'm SSI.

Just another reason why SSI is not for me. I contacted NAUI in the past and someone was right there to help me out with my questions.

Did you contact SSI or post a blast on Scubaboard? There is a LOT of difference. If I over looked the post where you said you had contacted them I'll aplologize in advance.