Problem in a "Rescue" class

[Sandie7]

I am not sure how to explain this - mostly because it was treated as irrelevant by the instructor and the other divers. So, I have a feeling that I am over-reacting.

But, here goes:

I was invited to be "the victim" in a Rescue class , but ended up doing the exercises also. At some point, we were doing an exercise when you had to share air with a diver that was tired and panicking. I was getting tired too, for real, and my partner was a bit clumsy, so when I was given the octopus I choked, and pretty hard. I did what is usual, grabbed the regulator and coughed. However the choking was so bad that the air didn't seem to be enough. I still tried, but realised there was no point in fainting or so in a pool, and ended the exercise.

The octopus in question was then experimented, and nobody found any problems.

But I am pretty sure about what I felt ... and I still keep thinking if it happened for real. What could be done ? Has anyone ever felt something like this ?

 

[nimoh]

Not sure what you mean by choking. Did you breathe in water and then have trouble clearing it out of your throat? Were you continuing to breathe in water? Did you think the regulator was not working correctly?

I did a class a few years ago and my classmate had a Poseidon regulator. When we did a gas sharing exercise, the high cracking resistance of the Poseidon surprised me (I had never breathed a Poseidon before). It wasn't a big issue, but I remember being glad that I found this out during an exercise rather than in a real situation.

If doing any training exercise and you are uncomfortable then it is reasonable to end the exercise. However, it is important to do the exercise again so that you get comfortable doing it since in a real situation, you wouldn't have the do-over option.

 

[Rick Murchison]

There are two likely possibilities...
1) there was some problem with the exhaust valve on the octopus, allowing water into the reg - unlikely
2) the octopus was inadequately cleared of water before inhaling. This is more likely, and the solution is to purge the regulator *after* putting it in the mouth *before* inhaling. The purge can be with the breath or with the purge, but the important part is to make sure the reg is clear of water before breathing from it.
Rick

 

[Sandie7]

Not sure what you mean by choking. Did you breathe in water and then have trouble clearing it out of your throat?

Yes.

Were you continuing to breathe in water?

No.

Did you think the regulator was not working correctly?

Not really. When I reached the surface I thought the flow had not been enough.

---------- Post added July 28th, 2015 at 03:08 PM ----------

There are two likely possibilities...
1) there was some problem with the exhaust valve on the octopus, allowing water into the reg - unlikely
2) the octopus was inadequately cleared of water before inhaling. This is more likely, and the solution is to purge the regulator *after* putting it in the mouth *before* inhaling. The purge can be with the breath or with the purge, but the important part is to make sure the reg is clear of water before breathing from it.
Rick

1. No, the choking had nothing to do with the regulator, I breathed water during the regulators exchange.

2. It could be, but my question remains. If you are in trouble, and are coughing so hard the way I was, what can be done if the regulator does not seem to be giving you enough air. (sorry, not sure if I a explaning this "right".)

 

[lowviz]

Many new divers feel this way because there is no air coming in through their nose. You may have been pushed to this feeling by choking on a bit of water.

 

[RJP]

Sometimes getting a little water in your throat will cause you to continue to cough and feel like you're choking and not able to breathe... even though you are.

Ending the exercise in the pool isn't terrible. But in the real world you should continue to cough and breathe through the regulator until the coughing subsides. Think about it this way: if you are able to cough, you are breathing. You can't repeatedly cough air out if you aren't getting air into your lungs.

Do also remember...

A.) Do NOT remove your current reg until you have the donated reg secured, properly oriented, and ready to put in your mouth

B.) Exhale tiny stream of bubbles when no reg in your mouth. If you are EXHALING while reg is out, you cannot INHALE water.

C.) While air sharing is not a timed exercise; slow is smooth, and smooth is fast

Ray

 

[Rooster59]

Did the other diver give you the reg with the purge covered? If your first breath was full of water, good luck stopping the choking that follows. I see divers handing off the reg with their hand completely covering the front of the reg all the time while practicing skills.

 

[TSandM]

It is very possible that you encountered something called laryngospasm. As a result of getting water into your airway during the regulator exchange, your vocal cords went into a bit of spasm and narrowed. At that point, the regulator isn't the limiting factor in how well you can breathe at all -- your own airway is. The only thing you can do with laryngospasm is wait it out and not panic. It WILL release, eventually. If you can get some air through, you will certainly survive the event if you remain calm. A friend of mine was practicing air-sharing in a cave class, IN the cave, when he was careless and didn't purge the regulator he put in his mouth. He went into full laryngospasm and could move no air at all. He had to wait until it resolved, hoping it would do so before he lost consciousness. It's a scary thing. There is no real treatment (positive pressure ventilation can sometimes break the spasm, but it's not easy to do that underwater), so the best thing is prevention, which means carefully purging any regulator before you begin to breathe from it.

 

[Rick Murchison]

...but my question remains. If you are in trouble, and are coughing so hard the way I was, what can be done if the regulator does not seem to be giving you enough air. (sorry, not sure if I a explaning this "right".)

Judicious use of the purge valve - that is, causing a manual (controlled) free-flow - will deliver more air than the diver can breathe. At this point it is imperative that the diver exercise "brain over body" and force the body to accept the fact that it's getting as much air as it could get on the surface, and reject the "bolt" response. It's also helpful to remember that at depth each breath is bringing in more oxygen than the same volume would at the surface, and again exercise brain over body, realizing that there's plenty of oxygen in each breath and there's no need to "pant" or panic.
It doesn't sound like you had a laryngospasm, but since that's come up, pay close attention to what Dr. TSandM says... and, I can add from personal experience, the first time it happens it will scare the livin' *&^(% out of the diver. If that happens, the diver must *really* force calmness and try to breathe gently and slowly; eventually the spasm will allow some inhalation, and, as I mentioned earlier, every little bit of air the diver can get in at depth carries more oxygen than at the surface, so "stay calm, and stay put."

Rick
--
Addendum - additional info - breathing patterns and anxiety/panic:
A common problem sequence at depth has to do with a combination of the body's blood oxygen level measurement mechanism and the density of the breathing gas. Because the air is denser at depth than at the surface, the same breathing effort and timing used on the surface will tend to result in a shallower breath, and though that'll generally deliver plenty of oxygen, it will be less efficient at off-gassing carbon dioxide, resulting in a higher blood CO2 level than normal.
The body, rather than measuring its oxygen status directly, uses blood CO2 levels to calculate oxygen saturation indirectly. So, a higher CO2 level will result in a feeling that the diver's not getting enough air, and absent any conscious intervention, the body will attempt to breathe faster. This attempt is generally counter-productive, because with increased density, airflow resistance increases greatly with the speed of the gas moving through any restriction (the trachea, bronchi, broncioles etc), and all that happens is that the diver breathes faster but even shallower than before, with even poorer CO2 off-gassing, climbing CO2 blood levels, an even more intense feeling of "not enough air" and so on until the diver is in full panic mode.
The solution is once again "brain over body," taking over the breathing pattern from the body's natural "breathe faster" feeling to "Ok, feeling like I'm a little short of breath here, I need to breath slowly and deeply, and exhale fully to get that CO2 level back down, 'cause I know I'm getting plenty of oxygen and my problem isn't a shortage of oxygen but rather poor off-gassing of CO2."

 

[Subcooled]

It must be added that freediving at the intermediate level will make you familiar with increased CO2 -levels and not beeing able to breathe. This allows you to relax while having difficulties to breathe (I had this situation three days ago). If you can relax, you can save oxygen, avoid carbon dioxide, and think clearly.