Pre Rescue Course - so challenge me!

[paddler3d]

My *guess* is as per another poster in that in-water rescue breaths are likely to delay getting to boat/land and that this time would be better spent hastening getting to land or boat to do compressions. I would imagine that this would all be dependant on the environment of course and if land or boat was not readily accessible then rescue breaths would be better than naught. But if the patient could be gotten to land/boat quickly then perhaps all efforts should be focussed on that.

I'm feeling slightly embarrassed - I probably shouldn't be voicing any opinion on any of this given my near absolute ignorance on the topic and currently not being EFR or rescue trained.

Be good if a board med could dive in.

J

First off, let us know what you were taught when you get to your class. There is a reason why it is good to renew your EFR. Content changes. Same with Rescue class.

One of of things that my instructors told me about, but didn't teach me was if you find an unconscious, non-breathing diver at depth, hook your dive reel to them, make them positive and send them on their way! Again assuming that there is someone on the surface to respond. In class they teach your how to position them, keep their regs in their mouths and make a controlled ascent. For all practical purposes, they are dead. If their is air in their lungs their airway is likely open and unobstructed, so AGE is unlikely. So you can make a controlled ascent and you still have control of the victim. If someone on shore or the boat gets there before you get up, that is time in their favor.

Update us when your done!

 

[tomfcrist]

Right.

Here's the gig. This year I'll be doing my rescue course at some point. Soon as poss but poss isn't always as soon as I'd like.

I've two other variables:

1. Diving in Tanzania for 10 days at end of Jan
2. Stopping drinking (which is kind of a big deal-ish for me)

So I'd like to put the time in TZ to good use. Where I'm going there's nothing to do but drink and dive and I aint doin the former. So I need to fill my time...

Anyone out there with a good list of what I can pre-plan and practise for my rescue course? A list would be dynamite...the harder the better... above water as well as below...

Cheers,
J

Find the heaviest musclebound dude you can find and tow him 10 laps at your locaL POOL. If you can do that you can handle any tow in OW.(most will bve less than 50 yds). Self rescue should be your highest priority even when attempting to rescue someone else, as this can lead to problems for you. Learning to properly control another diver that runs out of air is a practiced skill, and when all is said and done if you cant control a panicked diver underwater or on the surface and have exhausted all means to approach/restrain them, let em drown......sounds unpleasant but its better than them taking you with them. once they pass out tote em back to the boat and start reviving them.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[InTheDrink]

First off, let us know what you were taught when you get to your class. There is a reason why it is good to renew your EFR. Content changes. Same with Rescue class.

One of of things that my instructors told me about, but didn't teach me was if you find an unconscious, non-breathing diver at depth, hook your dive reel to them, make them positive and send them on their way! Again assuming that there is someone on the surface to respond. In class they teach your how to position them, keep their regs in their mouths and make a controlled ascent. For all practical purposes, they are dead. If their is air in their lungs their airway is likely open and unobstructed, so AGE is unlikely. So you can make a controlled ascent and you still have control of the victim. If someone on shore or the boat gets there before you get up, that is time in their favor.

Update us when your done!

Thanks a I will update once EFR course complete.

The course of action you suggest re an unconscious diver sounds sensible but drastic. I'm slightly wary of this kind of suggestion after discussing with one DM their course of action should they come across a panicked diver that wasn't calming down. Their suggestion was inflate the panicked diver's BC and send them up. We were discussing this in the context of a buddy of mine who was on the border of panic. I was pretty shocked to think that one of the next actions by this guy was to shoot my buddy to the surface (although in fairness my buddy probably wasn't too far from doing exactly the same himself and bolting).

I guess in so many of these things there isn't a definitely correct course of action. So much must depend on circumstance. For example, if your boat is near, shooting the unconscious diver to the surface asap might be the best chance of survival, however slim. Or, is it an unwritten rule that this practice always makes sense for an unconscious diver?

Anyhow, I'll report back. I'm separating out my EFR from my Rescue for logistical reasons. I hope that the EFR course is scuba aware.

J

 

[tomfcrist]

I wasted around 20-25s while trying to stop and do the rescue breathing over the course of 50m's. To me I felt like I would be doing the victim a better service by getting them to the boat or shore. Of course each situation is different and is going to require a different course of action.

Im just trying to clarify, did you actually stop towing to give rescue breaths?

I find it fairly easy to give RB and tow at the same time without stopping. I'm not saying that it is doing any good for a victim with no heartbeat(lack of circulation, so oxygenated blood wont get to the brain anyway), but it couldnt hurt.

 

[tomfcrist]

Thanks a I will update once EFR course complete.

For example, if your boat is near, shooting the unconscious diver to the surface asap might be the best chance of survival, however slim. Or, is it an unwritten rule that this practice always makes sense for an unconscious diver?

J

You have to differentiate between an unconsious diver(breathing), and a dead diver(not breathing/moving)....If the victim is breathing, i will bring him up controlled....Dead diver gets shot to the surface.

 

[paddler3d]

Thanks a I will update once EFR course complete.

The course of action you suggest re an unconscious diver sounds sensible but drastic. I'm slightly wary of this kind of suggestion after discussing with one DM their course of action should they come across a panicked diver that wasn't calming down. Their suggestion was inflate the panicked diver's BC and send them up. We were discussing this in the context of a buddy of mine who was on the border of panic. I was pretty shocked to think that one of the next actions by this guy was to shoot my buddy to the surface (although in fairness my buddy probably wasn't too far from doing exactly the same himself and bolting).

I guess in so many of these things there isn't a definitely correct course of action. So much must depend on circumstance. For example, if your boat is near, shooting the unconscious diver to the surface asap might be the best chance of survival, however slim. Or, is it an unwritten rule that this practice always makes sense for an unconscious diver?

Anyhow, I'll report back. I'm separating out my EFR from my Rescue for logistical reasons. I hope that the EFR course is scuba aware.

J

I don't know about shooting a paniced or near paniced diver to the surface. They're likely going to shoot up anyway, but to me that sounds like you could cause other injuries.

In my minds eye, it is the Rescuers job to get the victim as quickly as possible to better care, whether that is to the boat or shore.

One of my buddies and I we'll dive off the coast of MD. It is just the two of us. We've decided that if something were to happen our best course of action is to get on the radio and call the USCG for a rescue and then continue or proceed the the rescue. There is no point in providing CPR if non one is going to help.

Judgement has a lot to do with a good rescue.

Regardless, Rescue class was one of the funnest SCUBA classes I have taken.

BTW if you are towing back one of your victims and they 'start' to panic, a quick dunk tends to quiet them.

 

[paddler3d]

Im just trying to clarify, did you actually stop towing to give rescue breaths?

I find it fairly easy to give RB and tow at the same time without stopping. I'm not saying that it is doing any good for a victim with no heartbeat(lack of circulation, so oxygenated blood wont get to the brain anyway), but it couldnt hurt.

All my victims where in doubles so I didn't come to a full stop, but definately slowed down.

If could tow the crap out of them, but time was lost getting into position for rescue breathing. To me that time would be more effective when we got to shore sooner.

 

[tomfcrist]

All my victims where in doubles so I didn't come to a full stop, but definately slowed down.

If could tow the crap out of them, but time was lost getting into position for rescue breathing. To me that time would be more effective when we got to shore sooner.

ok, makes sense to me

 

[InTheDrink]

Thanks for your posts. Both make sense to me.

Tom, sorry if silly question, but how do you differentiate between an unconscious diver (breathing) and dead diver (unconscious, not breathing) underwater. And how likely is the former really? Sounds to me highly unlikely but again, I'm all on guesswork here.

TIA,
J

 

[tomfcrist]

the breathing diver has bubbles coming out of his regulator, the non breathing dead guy eitherisnt moving and has no regin his mouth, or the reg is in his mouth and there are no bubbles(ieead). the latter of the two isnt really a rescue as much as it is a recovery, therefore my methods of surfacing the victim would be differant.