Pre-DM course questions to assess a dive shop

[TMHeimer]

PADI defines "confined water" as any body of water that's confined. Pools or an ocean area that's enclosed/marked off with a reasonable depth counts as well(basically an area where the students won't have to fight currents while dealing with buoyancy).

Your shop can expect higher passing standards but if you're able to complete it to padi's standards, they can't withold things from you... For example doing every single skill demonstration quality is a good thing to do if you're working towards your IDC but if you can't do a solo no mask swim demo quality, they can't withold it from you. If they help you get there, then all the power to them.

That's news to me. I thought I read somewhere that you had to get at least a 3 on each of the 20 demo skills.

 

[vjanelle]

1 Candidate unable to perform exercise.
2 Exercise performed with significant difficulty or error.
3 Exercise performed correctly, though too quickly to adequately exhibit or illustrate details of the skill
4 Exercise performed correctly, and slowly enough to adequately exhibit or illustrate details of skill.
5 Exercise performed correctly, slowly and with exaggerated movement – appeared easy.

IIRC 3 didn't count as "demonstration quality", merely adequate to learn from. You needed to get a 4 on the mask removal/replacement. You need to get a minimum score of 68 on the rest of them, with no skill below a 3.

A skill demonstrated at the 3 level is adequate for someone to learn from, so it isn’t necessary to require a level of 4 or 5 on all skills. However, the goal of this exercise is to teach candi- dates how they can make their skills even more effective as teaching tools by striving for the 4 and 5 levels.

Mind you, I could just be holding myself up to a higher standard than what padi is expecting

 

[scubadiver888]

I, wrongly, assumed my shop was what was expected for all training. As I read posting on here I was at first thinking these other shops were dropping the ball and needed to be reported to their agency's QA department.

I have since learned that it is all about the instructor. Some instructors will meet the minimum requirements and others (like my shop) will exceed them. Most of the post here are within the minimum requirements. If you see people expecting more than others, they are exceeding PADI's minimum requirements.

Case in point, there is nothing saying you need to perform all the in water skills in one day but my shop feels you must be able to. I could insist they spread things out so I have a better chance of passing but I also know if I make them give me my DM cert because I met the minimums, they aren't going to hire me to work at their shop.

 

[TMHeimer]

I, wrongly, assumed my shop was what was expected for all training. As I read posting on here I was at first thinking these other shops were dropping the ball and needed to be reported to their agency's QA department.

I have since learned that it is all about the instructor. Some instructors will meet the minimum requirements and others (like my shop) will exceed them. Most of the post here are within the minimum requirements. If you see people expecting more than others, they are exceeding PADI's minimum requirements.

Case in point, there is nothing saying you need to perform all the in water skills in one day but my shop feels you must be able to. I could insist they spread things out so I have a better chance of passing but I also know if I make them give me my DM cert because I met the minimums, they aren't going to hire me to work at their shop.

Yeah, the points you make are exactly what I was thinking. Now mind you, I THINK at this point I can complete the stamina skills in one session. But I didn't think it was required. I can see how the standards can be minimum or raised depending on the instructor. Ei.- I read some instructors include weight belts during the equipment swap while ours did not. On the other hand ours is tougher with certain other aspects. You would think there should be one standard on everything that instructors must follow. This would eliminate the feeling that "Geez, I better get everything that has to be above minimum up there or they'll never hire me". It also wouldn't restrict instructors from giving all the extra valuable advice and tricks that we have learned.

 

[scubadiver888]

Yeah, the points you make are exactly what I was thinking. Now mind you, I THINK at this point I can complete the stamina skills in one session. But I didn't think it was required. I can see how the standards can be minimum or raised depending on the instructor. Ei.- I read some instructors include weight belts during the equipment swap while ours did not. On the other hand ours is tougher with certain other aspects.

No weight belts? The equipment swap is all about dealing with situations. The harder it is the more it makes you think and the more you need to 'communicate' with your buddy underwater. I haven't done the gear swap yet but we are expected to do everything except wetsuit, while swimming from one end of the pool to the other. This includes weight belt.

You would think there should be one standard on everything that instructors must follow. This would eliminate the feeling that "Geez, I better get everything that has to be above minimum up there or they'll never hire me". It also wouldn't restrict instructors from giving all the extra valuable advice and tricks that we have learned.

No, I like the way things are. There are shops in my area that I can go to and pass the DM training with no effort. They follow the 'one standard'. They would probably hire me to work there once I achieved Instructor level certification. They would probably hire anyone who passed the minimum standards. I picked the shop I did because they expect more than the minimum. They told me right up front what PADI requires and what they expect. I could have gone somewhere else at that point but didn't just because they have a higher standard.

My shop gives me the extra advice and tips. They aren't making it so hard I fail. They want me to know how to achieve a pass and are glad to give me tips. They just want to be sure I use everything they teach me. So if they teach me more than PADI requires, they expect me to successfully demonstrate what I have learned, i.e. more than PADI requires.

 

[TMHeimer]

I'm not saying the weight belts shouldn't be swapped. Just that it isn't required by PADI. I would've enjoyed that challenge, as the equipment swap was for me, surprisingly, the easiest part so far. I'm saying that either it should be required by PADI or not, and done whichever way. I also agree with your choice to go to the "harder" shop--I would make that same choice myself, except that our shop is the only one for 100 miles. What I"m saying is that perhaps the minimum PADI standards should be raised on everything--or not--but whichever way, all the shops should be required to have the same standards. This wouldn't be rocket science to set up. Those shops in your area which don't support the standards--whatever they are-- should be required by PADI to shape up.

 

[scubadiver888]

I'm not saying the weight belts shouldn't be swapped. Just that it isn't required by PADI. I would've enjoyed that challenge, as the equipment swap was for me, surprisingly, the easiest part so far. I'm saying that either it should be required by PADI or not, and done whichever way. I also agree with your choice to go to the "harder" shop--I would make that same choice myself, except that our shop is the only one for 100 miles. What I"m saying is that perhaps the minimum PADI standards should be raised on everything--or not--but whichever way, all the shops should be required to have the same standards. This wouldn't be rocket science to set up. Those shops in your area which don't support the standards--whatever they are-- should be required by PADI to shape up.

I think the problem is that PADI is trying to attract as many people to scuba diving as possible. There are some people who will dive 2 or 3 times a year. They will go on a DM lead dive. The DMs who lead those dives will get better over time but they don't need to be as good as the DM who is going to take some divers to a wreck at 100' under the commercial shipping channels of the St. Lawrence River.

PADI wants to set the minimums for all environments but hopes that each shop will step it up if the environment requires it. Basically, PADI wants to set the standard for ALL divers. Most of the divers are not like ANYONE you will find on this board.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yeah, can't disagree with any of that.