Pre-dive planning and conversation

[Searcaigh]

If I am going to have an "instabuddy" and not on home turf so to speak, I generally try to get to know the person first on the way to the dive site, where they are from etc., break the ice type stuff.

1. Find out if they have dived the site we are about to dive
2. Ask how many dives he/she has done
3. Rough dive plan - depending on site and gas being used including plan for dive time
4. My dive objectives, which are usually photographic in nature, check if they are ok with this
5. Cover some basic signs including a couple of my own
6. Signs for 100, 90, 80, 70, 60 and 50 Bar
7. Intention for 3 min safety stop at 6M and shoot a safety sausage if not on an anchor line
8. Gear review and check they understand the long hose
9. If the buddy is low on air well before me, an understanding that I may not ascend with them, and they may have to ascend on their own, especially if I have found a good subject to photograph and have plenty of gas left. (point to them, thumb up and OK sign)

Hopefully that will work, otherwise I am solo on the next dive or maybe even the first one

 

[mud8847]

All awesome stuff and things I was looking for!

I really like separation protocol, how to maintain contact, signals and communication, and previously mentioned familiarization with your buddy’s gear and if they are using any new gear. Also mentioned medical conditions I like how it was elegantly stated if prone to anxiety/nervousness (of course I am, I am as green as can be!) 

This is what I was looking for, an outline or overview of different topics and ways to handle them when dealing with and I love the term “insta-buddy.” More often than not, at this point, I have been doing vacation dives, however, plan to partake in more diving focused trips (per the warden’s allowance or the bank if you prefer), and local dives but until then…. (any recommended threads or reading on good “buddy procedures” or maintaining contact?) Again, attendee’s are usually similarly recent OW certified divers.

Thanks SB (sarcastic response from my wallet), I believe I have received the push needed to get off my a$$ and continue to pickup my own gear, and hopefully before leaving in two weeks for my next dive trip.

 

[fire_diver]

I like to cover the basics of planning:

Who will lead
plan or goals of the dive
limits of time or gas to turn the dive
hand / light signals
air sharing procedures

 

[Bubbletrubble]

(any recommended threads or reading on good “buddy procedures” or maintaining contact?) Again, attendee’s are usually similarly recent OW certified divers.

I think NWGratefulDiver's essay on buddy diving is a good place to start. In fact, I'd recommend that you read all of the other stuff on his site as well. It might just change the way you approach diving...

 

[cloudflint]

Ive found SEEDS works well:


Signals: Go over any signals your likley to use to make sure you both talking on the same page so to speak
Equipment: Check over your own equipment and familiarise yourself with your buddies inflater controls, weight system, air sharing procedure, location of octopus e.t.c.
Exercise: Go over what you will actually do on the dive i.e. where you will go and what you will do, compass bearings, purpose of dive e.t.c
Discipline: Basically how close to stick together, max depth, stops or no stops?, turning pressure, will you communicate your preasure to each outher and if so how? e.t.c
Saftey: Discuss any particular safety information relative to the site i.e. any particular hazards, what to do in an emergency, buddy sepration procedures,location of emergency facilities such as oxygen e.t.c.

So a pre-dive chat for me might go something like: These are the signals I use. Here is my BC controls for you to look at, If you need air grab my octopus which hangs on my right hip, just pull it to release like so. I have X bar and all my equipment is working fine, i have a standard weight belt on. for this dive we will enter the water, get together and go down. we will swim northwards to look over the reef then make our way back to shore. I will lead the dive. We will turn back when we hit 100 bar or after 20 minutes. We wont go deeper than 20 meters and wont be doing stops. I want you to keep within arms length of me and keep to my left shoulder. If i show you my SPG i want you to show me yours. There arent any particular hazards on this site. if we are separated look around for 1 minute then come up. Oxygen is on the shore. In an emergency phone the coastguard and tell them you have a diving emergency at hypothetical reef.

 

[Charlie99]

Many of the posts above do not address the situation the OP is in .... group dives led by a DM.

It is uncommon for the DM to give detailed information on the route, waypoints, etc. You should have at least the intended profile: max depth, and intended length of dive. If a multilevel dive is planned, then the approximate times at each level should be mentioned. It may be a bit vague as the DM will adjust on the fly, but you should at least be told something like 20 minutes at 80', then up around 6o or 50' for another 20 minutes, then up above 30 for the rest of the dive.

Some unique points to confirm for DM led dives off of a boat:

1. Is the boat going to remain at the mooring/anchor spot, or will it be a live pickup.

2. The DM is NOT your buddy. If you run low on air before the end of the dive, he will not be ascending with you. He will continue to lead the dive.

3. The DM will often ask divers during the dive what their air pressure is. Make sure that everyone has agreed upon the method of signalling (there are many different methods. Don't assume the one your LDS taught you is the only method).

4. It is also likely that the DM will ask people to notify him at a couple of key pressure points, such as 1500psi and 700 psi. The 1500psi would be so that he can change the path of the dive so that he will be passing back past the mooring pin / anchor when it is time for the person lowest on air to ascend.

5. What is the ascent procedure? Will the entire group ascend with the first person gets to ascent pressure? Will buddy pairs ascend together when they reach ascent pressure? Will solo divers ascend by themselves? (In tropical locations with good visibility, it is not uncommon for divers without buddies to ascend by themselves while the DM keeps an eye on them from below until they touch the boat ladder). If you are not comfortable ascending by yourself, then you should be finding a buddy on the boat. If you do come with a buddy, many dive ops assume and request that you stay with that buddy for the entire dive. Other dive ops are OK with the airhog of a buddy pair (usually the guy) ascending by himself while the air sipper (usually a woman) continues the dive with the group.

6. Is it safe to ascend directly to the surface at any and all points in the dive, or is there danger from overhead boat traffic? Will the DM be putting up a DSMB (delayed surface marker buoy) if someone needs to ascend away from the boat?

7. Lost group, lost buddy protocol. Make sure everyone is on the same page for what happens if one diver loses sight of the group, and what happens if a buddy pair loses sight/contact with the group? With many dive charter operators it is expected that any person or buddy pair that separates from the DM will ascend to the surface and make contact with the boat. This is quite different than dive ops that are just providing transportation for buddy pairs that do whatever they want underwater.

I'm sure there are things I've left out, but those are the ones that I've seen as frequent points of misunderstanding.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

"I know we are technically being lead and under the oversight of the DM"


this is a dangerous attitude and belief. As Charlie said the DM is not responsible for you. People would like to believe that but it is not true. As a certified diver you may follow the DM but you really are responsible for leading yourself and overseeing yourself. This thread may help explain that in more detail as well as the chapter on "trust me" dives in my book.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ering-diving/283566-who-responsible-what.html

 

[fire_diver]

Many of the posts above do not address the situation the OP is in .... group dives led by a DM.

General question (dive planning or conversation and discussion):

What are some of the bullet items to be or should be covered in the pre-dive discussion? In the few dives I’ve done not too much has been discussed and being a naturally inquisitive I ask many questions, however, got the feeling more than once of oh don’t worry about, which scares the hell out of me! The few conversations I have had really just centered around establishing that we will be completing a safety stop, when, and for how long. Along with a few hand signals including an agreed and established method for communicating specifically how much air one has left. In my honest opinion I would think things like depth, bottom time, conditions, possibly direction, directly associated hand signals, some sort of pairing (buddy assignment), and a few what if situations and how the DM would like them handled. Am I crazy, over analyzing things, or missing anything?

I guess my question is can some one give me a typical pre-dive conversation overview?

Thanks in advance,

I didnt get that from the OP at all. He was just asking what should be talked about prior to diving. Almost all insta-buddy dive are on boats with DMs.

Also, why can't you go over basic info/expectations with an insta-buddy on a DM led dive? DM led doesn't equal "same ocean" group dive.

 

[Charlie99]

I didnt get that from the OP at all. He was just asking what should be talked about prior to diving. Almost all insta-buddy dive are on boats with DMs.

Also, why can't you go over basic info/expectations with an insta-buddy on a DM led dive? DM led doesn't equal "same ocean" group dive.

Firediver, read his 2nd post, #8. The phrase "some sort of pairing (buddy assignment)" in his first post made me wonder. I asked for clarification, and he said that most of his dives are group dives led by a DM.

Of course you can go over info/expectations with an insta-buddy on a DM led dive, but there are certain things that must be coordinated between not only buddies, but also with the DM/group in general.

And on a lot of boats, if you don't proactively seek out and agree to buddy up with someone, a diver coming to the boat by himself will NOT have any buddy at all for that dive. The "loose buddy" type of group is pretty common in resort areas. 6 divers get in the water with the DM and do a dive. If there are pre-existing buddy pairs, then they are buddies, but anybody without a buddy just hangs with the group. Where this starts running into problems is where one of those solo divers assumes that the DM is his buddy and wonders why he isn't ascending when the solo divers signals to him that he has reached the ascent pressure, or even gives the low on air signal. I have read several of that sort of incident report, where a diver and the DM had different expectations.

This sort of group diving is very common, but doesn't seem to be discussed or analyzed very much.

 

[mud8847]

Cloudflint, I like and tend to remember things better with acronyms, thx!

Charlie99, great post! That is what I was looking for a general round about conversation DM aside, of communication before diving between you and a possible dive buddy.

Jim, excellent point and nice pickup! Yes, I’ll admit to being some what confused around the lines of responsibility between parties as well as their roles. Previously, I thought a DM was the overseer and or watchdog for the dive and not just organizer or tour guide.

Fire_diver/Jim, I think you are both right in your interpretation of my post. I did previously think the DM was “responsible” for the dive and not just a tour guide, however, as I wasn’t sure if that was the case and whether or not he or she was I was curious to what communication I should be having with my insta-buddy or the group at large regardless. I figured if he was responsible these type of conversations wouldn’t hurt anything, and if he wasn’t this was a conversation I would want to have!

This is all GREAT information and reason I posted, I no longer am under the assumption (I know better now, and know I’m going to get smacked for this but yes I assumed) that the DM is “responsible” for the dive and I think the key is as posted by Charlie99 is managing expectations. ALL of my dives aside from my OW dives were in a group setting, I didn’t have a “buddy”, and DM lead hence it’s probably a little more obvious where I’m coming from with my confusion now huh and not having had experience with “buddy protocol” or how to stay with a buddy. My buddy was always the group, which BTW was what got me in trouble my last dive as I got caught in a current and drifted off to Cuba while the rest of the “group” remained in Coz!

With the DM not being responsible I take from this thread the importance of establishing roles, expectations, and general profile information along with the usual group/DM info; communicating, remaining gas, surface procedures, separation procedures etc. However, also the importance of establishing a buddy (I’m a very novice diver) and ensuring we are on the same page as well!

Once, I was young ignorant and on a DSD dive. Everything seemed so clear and simple. I figured I had the hang of this diving stuff and how much more information could there be associated with scuba diving. I then got the bright idea I could do this all on my own and not have to take this intro DSD course every time I want to dive. This is when the ocean swallowed me up, my eyes were opened, and I have now come to the realization there is more that I don’t know than I know!